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Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

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Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#131

Post by zdw »

jfmfhhdkdkd wrote: post #96
jdietrich wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portugal decriminalised personal possession of drugs 15 years ago, which has given us some useful evidence. HIV infection rates and drug-related deaths have reduced significantly, and the prison population has reduced by over 50%. The proportion of people who have ever used drugs has increased slightly, but there has been a reduction in the number of regular drug users. We don't really know what would happen in a lai…

But Japan and Hong Kong and many others still have far lower drug use and crime rates despite their very tough laws on drug use, when compared to Portugal.

Japan and HK both have significant organized crime that controls the flow of drugs into the country and drives the price way up. In Japan's case the Yakuza has effectively banned certain drugs they consider "too dangerous".

Source: I had Japanese roommates in college who turned out to be potheads. They raved about the super-cheap marijuana they could get in the US, which was 1/5 to 1/10th the price as was available in Japan.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#132

Post by parenthephobia »

anon4 wrote: post #72

What about the fact that drugs are incompatible with the lifestyle we want our society to have? Isn't it better instead of legalizing them to find the root cause which is forcing these people to seek escapism from reality in psychoactive substances? I don't want to live in a society of drug addicts, I want to live among people of sound mind, body and spirit, who conduct themselves honestly and honourable among their…

> What about the fact that drugs are incompatible with the lifestyle we want our society to have? Isn't it better instead of legalizing them to find the root cause which is forcing these people to seek escapism from reality in psychoactive substances?

Should we be fighting all forms of escapism? Movies, books, comics, computer games? Daydreaming?

If not, why are "drugs" different?

Does this apply to all psychoactive substances? Tobacco? Alcohol? Chocolate? Nutmeg?

> I don't want to live in a society of drug addicts, I want to live among people of sound mind, body and spirit, who conduct themselves honestly and honourable among their peers.

Wouldn't we all? I do not think that eradicating drug use will bring about this this utopia, though.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#133

Post by cm2187 »

mtreis86 wrote: post #88
cm2187 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pro legalization but I would never see a drug user as a victim. No more than an alcoholic driving a car is a victim. The flip side of freedom is responsibility. The state will not make decisions for you, and therefore you are responsible for your own decisions. It's not like if the long term effects of drugs aren't well and widely known.

One of the biggest problems with drugs is the addictiveness. You seem to have no problem with addictions, so let me inform you. It fucking sucks. Your entirely of being is focused on getting to that next respite of peace that only some substance seems to be able to provide. Goals? Fuck em. Job? Who cares. Commit crimes for cash? Absolutely. The problem with hardcore drug use is that it literally strips you of your de…

I agree but once the drug user is addicted it is too late. Addiction as a result of a treatment is a different matter. But the responsibility is for a user to chose to consume recreational drugs in the knowledge of the large risk of addiction and long term effects on the brain. These risks are widely known, and there is almost not a single movie that doesn't depict drug users as junkies. People should be free to take their chance nevertheless but I don't see them as victims.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#134

Post by GordonS »

jfmfhhdkdkd wrote: post #90
jfmfhhdkdkd wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, there are plenty of Asian countries (Singapore, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Japan, etc) where drug laws are much stricter than the US's, there are very few drug addicts, and there is very little crime.

I really find it absurd that stating facts is downvoted here on HN because it doesn't fit the hivemind. Singapore and Indonesia execute drug offenders and despite what I am told should happen in this thread, there is very little crime despite their crazier "War on Drugs". When compared to a country like Portugal, Singapore and Indonesia have far lower crime and drug use.

I didn't downvote, but others may have downvoted because you didn't give any sources, and you don't expand on your statement. Yes, there are fewer drug users in Singapore and Japan, but they are historically and culturally extremely different to the USA.

I'm not convinced on Indonesia[1] and Hong Kong[2]; I've visited both myself several times, and drugs were easily available.

[1] http://jakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/news/bnn-says-33-die-of-d... [2] http://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/article/1826366/...

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#135

Post by rangibaby »

jfmfhhdkdkd wrote: post #96
jdietrich wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portugal decriminalised personal possession of drugs 15 years ago, which has given us some useful evidence. HIV infection rates and drug-related deaths have reduced significantly, and the prison population has reduced by over 50%. The proportion of people who have ever used drugs has increased slightly, but there has been a reduction in the number of regular drug users. We don't really know what would happen in a lai…

But Japan and Hong Kong and many others still have far lower drug use and crime rates despite their very tough laws on drug use, when compared to Portugal.

Japan has low crime rates because there is no visible underclass like blacks in America or immigrants in Europe.

There are drugs that are partly or fully banned in other countries that are freely prescribed here (rohypnol, for example).

Mushrooms weren't banned at all until recently.

An ex's brother was prosecuted for weed but let off after paying a fine. Another guy I knew who sold was let off in exchange for his cellphone contacts.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#137

Post by saiya-jin »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #92
puranjay wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder what would happen to drug use if it was widely and easily available. Would usage drop because it wouldn't be "rebellious" to get drugs? That was at least the motivation for a lot of younger drug users I know. In my country (India), there is a region in the Himalayas - Kasaul - where marijuana grows in the wild. It is so easily accessible that you can literally pluck some on a walk through the forest.…

Personally speaking (although I'm hardly one of the "younger drug users" you refer to), I would continue to consume more or less the same quantity of drugs that I do now. I would possibly increase my intake very slightly, but not significantly. The significant differences would be that I would probably pay less, I would be consuming safer, regulated substances, and I wouldn't constantly be in fear of being sent to pr…

same for me, but I hate smoking. if things would be legal, I would much MUCH prefer different, non harmful way to consume it (food, of vaporizing some pure extract in e-cigarette style). usual vaporizers are only somewhere in the middle, plus more inconvenient.

I don't care so much about pricing, amsterdam levels would be OK for me. I consume so little that I would be OK even with higher pricing. But I could actually choose what type of effect, strength etc. I want, rather than random, mostly weak & expensive street stuff, bought from shady characters in dark alleys.

Unless society will be handling death/for life penalties for pure consumation here, I am not stopping consuming of a plant that used to grow all round us, was heavily subsidized when US colonies got independence etc. It just doesn't make sense, this is one of the cases of laws that are plain wrong (in case of this plant and all possible products from it). If there is such an immoral law, it actually feels good breaking it (but still preferring clean, legal, market-driven scenario).

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#138

Post by GordonS »

anon4 wrote: post #72

What about the fact that drugs are incompatible with the lifestyle we want our society to have? Isn't it better instead of legalizing them to find the root cause which is forcing these people to seek escapism from reality in psychoactive substances? I don't want to live in a society of drug addicts, I want to live among people of sound mind, body and spirit, who conduct themselves honestly and honourable among their…

> What about the fact that drugs are incompatible with the lifestyle we want our society to have?

Says who? Billions of people consume alcohol and tobacco every week - these are drugs too!

I fail to see how unwinding with some weed/hash at the end of a day or at the weekend is a bad thing, or how it's any different to alcohol.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#139

Post by venomsnake »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #41

The drug problem was studied years ago by the RAND corporation and the US Military - a pure cost-benefit analysis. They found that treatment and education are the most cost effective way to deal with the drug problem, and that prohibition was the most costly and ineffective means of dealing with it. Therefore the government understands that the war on drugs is likely to be unsuccessful, and we have to ask ourselves,…

Can't "keep the black men as much as possible in prison" probably also play a "minor" role? War on drugs hits the poor and black communities the most. That is by design - the crack cocaine 100 times as powder cocaine being good example.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#140

Post by norea-armozel »

puranjay wrote: post #66
Synaesthesia wrote: post #41

The drug problem was studied years ago by the RAND corporation and the US Military - a pure cost-benefit analysis. They found that treatment and education are the most cost effective way to deal with the drug problem, and that prohibition was the most costly and ineffective means of dealing with it. Therefore the government understands that the war on drugs is likely to be unsuccessful, and we have to ask ourselves,…

I always wonder what would happen to drug use if it was widely and easily available. Would usage drop because it wouldn't be "rebellious" to get drugs? That was at least the motivation for a lot of younger drug users I know. In my country (India), there is a region in the Himalayas - Kasaul - where marijuana grows in the wild. It is so easily accessible that you can literally pluck some on a walk through the forest.…

Culture always shapes how we view substances. For folks in that region I'm not sure there's any stigma attached but I'll take a guess by saying they probably don't see it as a viable past time or fun to consume.
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