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Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

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Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#51

Post by sergiosgc »

iDemonix wrote: post #13

Portugal seems to be doing better from decriminalising (obviously not the same as legalisation). Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decr... Source: http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-decriminalisation-portugal-... Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal

I'm Portuguese, so let me give a local perspective. It is important to note that Portugal had a very low crime rate to begin with and, in comparison, drug problems smaller than the US. The experience may not translate directly.

Nevertheless, decriminalization of consumption (not traffic), has allowed drug users to reach out for treatment, which led to better statistics on drug use, better approaches to treatment and an overall decrease in hard-core drug use (cocaine, meth and such). Cannabis use is up from then, but that is perhaps an observation bias (better statistics).

The result of lower hard drug use is a lower crime rate. That effect is clear as water. It is now obvious that most crime had drug use as its cause.

Interestingly, there was a social effect that may be hard to reproduce. Hard drugs fell out of fashion. While cannabis is widespread in youth events, hard drug use is socially shunned. Perhaps the visibility of its effects hit the population, perhaps the relative personal cost became obvious, but it is certainly uncool to be a hard drug user.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#52

Post by alistproducer2 »

lossolo wrote: post #38

What about people that are involved in illegal drug industry after legalizing drugs? Most of them know only how to deal drugs, know only crime, they will need to find new way to make money and probably it will not be a legal one. So i don't know if it's better that someone stay on corner and sell cocaine to people that WANT cocaine, without (in most cases) hurt anyone else in the process OR make that person steal, ex…

On some level the premise of your statement is not totally incorrect. As a result of legalalized weed, It has been reported that Mexican cartels have moved to other sources of revenue such as kidnapping [1].

One of the main goals of legalization is to starve black market actors of revenue. Extortion and kidnapping don't scale nearly as well as dope; therefore they are orders of magnitude less profitable.

1.http://fusion.net/story/108575/how-mexican-drug-cartels-are-...

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#53

Post by dragonwriter »

wfunction wrote: post #11

Is there evidence to show that legalizing drugs (I don't mean e.g. tobacco here; I mean the far more dangerous ones) won't significantly increase their consumption? I ask because, unless there is, I'm afraid I do not understand why it would be rational to do so...

Even with a significant increase in consumption, it might be worth legalizing because the social costs (that is, the costs born by those who do not voluntarily choose to accept them) of prohibition could still be higher than those of the increased consumption.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#54

Post by [deleted] »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #41

The drug problem was studied years ago by the RAND corporation and the US Military - a pure cost-benefit analysis. They found that treatment and education are the most cost effective way to deal with the drug problem, and that prohibition was the most costly and ineffective means of dealing with it. Therefore the government understands that the war on drugs is likely to be unsuccessful, and we have to ask ourselves,…

[deleted]

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#55

Post by cm2187 »

tomp wrote: post #43
lossolo wrote: post #38

What about people that are involved in illegal drug industry after legalizing drugs? Most of them know only how to deal drugs, know only crime, they will need to find new way to make money and probably it will not be a legal one. So i don't know if it's better that someone stay on corner and sell cocaine to people that WANT cocaine, without (in most cases) hurt anyone else in the process OR make that person steal, ex…

The beauty of drug dealing (from a criminal's perspective) is that it's easy and profitable - there's a high demand from customers willing to spend a lot of money on drugs, and enforcement is very poor (judging from the ease end-users can buy drugs). Prostitution is very similar. So, if you legalize all businesses with which criminals easily earn a lot of money, a lot of them will be economically incentivised to star…

And the alternative ways to make money for a self respecting criminal are getting harder every day. Cars are more difficult to steal, people use a lot less cash, you have CCTVs everywhere, now the police even collects DNA for a robbery. I can't think of an obvious substitute to drug trafficking for these criminals. I would be also ready to bet that Tinder must have made a dent in the prostitution trade!

But not all drug traffickers are Tony Montanas, there are legions of petty criminals, or even workers who make money on the side dealing drugs.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#56

Post by [deleted] »

tomp wrote: post #43
lossolo wrote: post #38

What about people that are involved in illegal drug industry after legalizing drugs? Most of them know only how to deal drugs, know only crime, they will need to find new way to make money and probably it will not be a legal one. So i don't know if it's better that someone stay on corner and sell cocaine to people that WANT cocaine, without (in most cases) hurt anyone else in the process OR make that person steal, ex…

The beauty of drug dealing (from a criminal's perspective) is that it's easy and profitable - there's a high demand from customers willing to spend a lot of money on drugs, and enforcement is very poor (judging from the ease end-users can buy drugs). Prostitution is very similar. So, if you legalize all businesses with which criminals easily earn a lot of money, a lot of them will be economically incentivised to star…

[deleted]

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#57

Post by dragonwriter »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #41

The drug problem was studied years ago by the RAND corporation and the US Military - a pure cost-benefit analysis. They found that treatment and education are the most cost effective way to deal with the drug problem, and that prohibition was the most costly and ineffective means of dealing with it. Therefore the government understands that the war on drugs is likely to be unsuccessful, and we have to ask ourselves,…

It absolutely is a conspiracy. I think you mean it's not an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#58

Post by hellofunk »

lossolo wrote: post #38

What about people that are involved in illegal drug industry after legalizing drugs? Most of them know only how to deal drugs, know only crime, they will need to find new way to make money and probably it will not be a legal one. So i don't know if it's better that someone stay on corner and sell cocaine to people that WANT cocaine, without (in most cases) hurt anyone else in the process OR make that person steal, ex…

> without (in most cases) hurt anyone else

Surely you don't think the only victim in the drug trafficking industry are actually drug users?

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#59

Post by user_0001 »

ghshephard wrote: post #14
smegel wrote: post #2

It really is a difficult problem. Sweden legalized heroin in the 60s and it was a disaster. On the other hand, enforcement only has a moderate impact, but comes at a huge financial and social cost. And while I don't support it, the only country with a measure of success seems to be Singapore, where you just hang anyone who has more than single dose in their possession. Maybe the grim reality is hanging a few hundred…

Singapore is somewhat unique in that it's a country with very restricted freedoms, which have been given up in exchange for security/safety. It's extraordinarily rule-bound, and, in many ways, is the antithesis of the United States, in which freedoms reign. In such a structured, government controlled and monitored society, all sorts of rules can be laid down, and enforced through strict punishment. I wouldn't try and…

>in which freedoms reign.

Really? Looking beyond what is drilled in to the population from birth and the US is very rule bound in my experience compared to Europe. Whilst over there I got ticketed for parking at the wrong angle, crossing the road in the wrong place. Granted not a rule, but got questions by police for walking and many other situations I forget.

Perhaps European countries have this many rules / laws but I have never experienced them being enforced

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#60

Post by cm2187 »

hellofunk wrote: post #58
lossolo wrote: post #38

What about people that are involved in illegal drug industry after legalizing drugs? Most of them know only how to deal drugs, know only crime, they will need to find new way to make money and probably it will not be a legal one. So i don't know if it's better that someone stay on corner and sell cocaine to people that WANT cocaine, without (in most cases) hurt anyone else in the process OR make that person steal, ex…

> without (in most cases) hurt anyone else Surely you don't think the only victim in the drug trafficking industry are actually drug users?

I am pro legalization but I would never see a drug user as a victim. No more than an alcoholic driving a car is a victim. The flip side of freedom is responsibility. The state will not make decisions for you, and therefore you are responsible for your own decisions. It's not like if the long term effects of drugs aren't well and widely known.
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