Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs • Hacker News Board

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#21

Post by coldtea » Wed, Mar 02, 2016, 11:30 AM UTC

smegel wrote: post #2

It really is a difficult problem. Sweden legalized heroin in the 60s and it was a disaster. On the other hand, enforcement only has a moderate impact, but comes at a huge financial and social cost. And while I don't support it, the only country with a measure of success seems to be Singapore, where you just hang anyone who has more than single dose in their possession. Maybe the grim reality is hanging a few hundred…

>And while I don't support it, the only country with a measure of success seems to be Singapore, where you just hang anyone who has more than single dose in their possession.

Success being what? People not doing drugs? Who said that's what people want?

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#22

Post by wfunction » Wed, Mar 02, 2016, 11:30 AM UTC

Yaggo wrote: post #19

wfunction wrote: post #11

Is there evidence to show that legalizing drugs (I don't mean e.g. tobacco here; I mean the far more dangerous ones) won't significantly increase their consumption? I ask because, unless there is, I'm afraid I do not understand why it would be rational to do so...

Far more dangerous ones, such as alcohol? Tobacco is already the 6th dangerous drug in the world. http://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/whats-most-dangerous-...

By "dangerous" I meant in the typical, colloquial sense (e.g. more likely to kill you in a shorter amount of time or what have you)...

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#23

Post by CrLf » Wed, Mar 02, 2016, 11:30 AM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #7

AndrewDucker wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The only country with a measure of success seems to be Singapore" So, completely discounting the massive improvements in Portugal since decriminalisation?

While I'm very glad we did so, I have to point out that decriminalization of possession of small amounts of drugs is very far from legalization.

Also, it didn't really fix the drug abuse problem. It did help a lot with the social consequences of abuse by removing obstacles to seek help (or provide help).

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#24

Post by coldtea » Wed, Mar 02, 2016, 11:32 AM UTC

ommunist wrote: post #8

Decriminalising ganja will also boost textile industry.

Not really, since the textile plants are of different varieties of canabis, and already allowed in lots of countries.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#25

Post by fredley » Wed, Mar 02, 2016, 11:32 AM UTC

robmcm wrote: post #20

It will be interesting to see what happens when we reach a position where virtual drugs are possible, or virtual reality can be as addictive and detrimental to ones life as being addicted to chemicals. Can you ban math(s)?

In terms of banning mathematics, the UK Government is trying its hardest to outlaw strong encryption, so...

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#26

Post by ZeroGravitas » Wed, Mar 02, 2016, 11:32 AM UTC

wfunction wrote: post #11

Is there evidence to show that legalizing drugs (I don't mean e.g. tobacco here; I mean the far more dangerous ones) won't significantly increase their consumption? I ask because, unless there is, I'm afraid I do not understand why it would be rational to do so...

Well, it's not all or nothing. If you legalized cannabis for example, you may find that users switch to that from more harmful drugs such as alcohol, or opiates. In particular, by buying from controlled suppliers, rather than the black-market, makes them less likely to be offered worse stuff as alternatives.

By then reducing the size of the black market, you drain it of customers and money, and make it easier to police. But banning stuff that large segments of the population already do, even while suffering legal risk, is a harder policy to enforce.

There's also the fact that horse-riding, backyard pools, gun ownership, rock climbing, not eating well or excercising enough as likely to kill you as some drugs, so a consistent approach to that would be welcome too.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#27

Post by oneeyedpigeon » Wed, Mar 02, 2016, 11:33 AM UTC

wfunction wrote: post #22

Yaggo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far more dangerous ones, such as alcohol? Tobacco is already the 6th dangerous drug in the world. http://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/whats-most-dangerous-...

By "dangerous" I meant in the typical, colloquial sense (e.g. more likely to kill you in a shorter amount of time or what have you)...

"colloquial sense" ... "or what have you"

This right here is why we don't have a sensible drug policy; many, many people think like this when approaching the subject.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#28

Post by vzcx » Wed, Mar 02, 2016, 11:33 AM UTC

wfunction wrote: post #11

Is there evidence to show that legalizing drugs (I don't mean e.g. tobacco here; I mean the far more dangerous ones) won't significantly increase their consumption? I ask because, unless there is, I'm afraid I do not understand why it would be rational to do so...

I assume you mean "rational, if your goal is to decrease drug use."

If that is the case, one must also consider all of the costs involved in making the drugs illegal, from paying people to enforce their illegality (DEA, border agents, customs inspections), increased burdens on the legal system, and the funding more prisons, the increase in thefts committed by addicts due to the rise in prices, increased burden on medical services (impure drugs are more hazardous to health)...

If your goal is "decrease drug use at all costs," then I question the rationality of the goal.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#29

Post by coldtea » Wed, Mar 02, 2016, 11:35 AM UTC

wfunction wrote: post #11

Is there evidence to show that legalizing drugs (I don't mean e.g. tobacco here; I mean the far more dangerous ones) won't significantly increase their consumption? I ask because, unless there is, I'm afraid I do not understand why it would be rational to do so...

The rationale is that consumption of drugs is a personal choice and fine.

It's harm from drugs that's bad, and most of it comes from them being illegal, and thus: uncontrolled quality and quantity (overdoses, etc), overpriced (making people steal etc to buy them), black market (thus supporting a mafia that sells them, kills people etc). That, and landing people in jail (where they ruin their live, become actual hardened criminals etc) for simple pocession etc.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#30

Post by wfunction » Wed, Mar 02, 2016, 11:35 AM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #26

wfunction wrote: post #11

Is there evidence to show that legalizing drugs (I don't mean e.g. tobacco here; I mean the far more dangerous ones) won't significantly increase their consumption? I ask because, unless there is, I'm afraid I do not understand why it would be rational to do so...

Well, it's not all or nothing. If you legalized cannabis for example, you may find that users switch to that from more harmful drugs such as alcohol, or opiates. In particular, by buying from controlled suppliers, rather than the black-market, makes them less likely to be offered worse stuff as alternatives. By then reducing the size of the black market, you drain it of customers and money, and make it easier to poli…

> There's also the fact that horse-riding, backyard pools, gun ownership, rock climbing, not eating well or excercising enough as likely to kill you as some drugs, so a consistent approach to that would be welcome too.

Unlike the use of drugs, almost all of the things you mentioned fall under category of "exercise", which (correct me if I'm wrong) I believe is medically accepted to have immense benefits, whereas I'm not sure the case is the same with the drugs under consideration here...