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Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

failedevolution.blogspot.com

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Re: Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

#41

Post by cbeach »

Ensorceled wrote: post #33
cbeach wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with an alternative to capitalism that isn't communism, or some dilute form of communism. We have socialism - the erosion of capitalism to provide a reward for those that won't or can't work. What's your "new possibility"? Without a proposal, your point is moot.

Your definition of every form of economics that isn't an extreme libertarian version of capitalism as "communism or a form of socialism" makes further discourse moot.

That's a bit of a straw man. But anyway, if you want to contribute something to the debate, why not suggest an alternative system?

Re: Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

#42

Post by carapat_virulat »

taneq wrote: post #31
Ensorceled wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I refuse to believe that our only choices as a species is between the very worst of libertarian capitalist excess and the very worst of Stalinism. I firmly reject the idea that nothing else can work or should even be tried.

What, you're saying that excluding the middle ground is a fallacy? By Jove, I think you may be onto something!

The middle ground doesn't exist in itself. To have a middle ground you need to have a previous political position from which you can measure it, the illusion is believing that you can find a universal ideological space from which you can map the rest of ideological positions.

That is, when you take a certain political position that not only determines what measures you want to apply, it also determines how you see every other political position. The center is not the same center for a conservative and for a left-winger.

Re: Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

#43

Post by ethbro »

asift wrote: post #34
lhecker wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the linked article does not capture his original words well. Instead he said: > If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed. > Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. > So far, the trend seems to be t…

>If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed. When you start with ridiculous premises, you're going to reach ridiculous conclusions.

I don't see that as a ridiculous premise: far enough in the future, it's almost inevitable.

Re: Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

#44

Post by johanneskanybal »

asift wrote: post #34
lhecker wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the linked article does not capture his original words well. Instead he said: > If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed. > Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. > So far, the trend seems to be t…

>If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed. When you start with ridiculous premises, you're going to reach ridiculous conclusions.

It's only ridiculous because you think in absolutes. To a large extent this has already happened.

Re: Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

#45

Post by calibraxis »

cbeach wrote: post #18
kingkawn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering how deeply this community has internalized the importance of creative thought your analysis is pretty limiting to any new possibility being possible.

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with an alternative to capitalism that isn't communism, or some dilute form of communism. We have socialism - the erosion of capitalism to provide a reward for those that won't or can't work. What's your "new possibility"? Without a proposal, your point is moot.

Here's 4 alternatives to capitalism: http://thenextsystem.org/new-systems-possibilities-and-propo...

Some of these, like Participatory Economics, have lots of literature/tutorials behind them.

Re: Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

#46

Post by mxuribe »

Toenex wrote: post #12

Without robots how will we fight our Capitalist overlords?

Obviously if we can't depend on technology to defend us, we'd have to resort to alternative methods: we'd have to genetically manipulate some higher-order species to help defend us. Maybe birds, no dolphins; better yet: apes. Yep, that's it: we'll tweak apes. That couldn't end wrong for the human species, right? ;-)

Re: Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

#47

Post by bottled_poe »

cbeach wrote: post #32
elros wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed]

The USSR, Cuba, Vietnam, Communist China, North Korea, Venezuela, Argentina...

There are plenty of "free market" countries where the economy has failed too, so I think a little more evidence is required...

Re: Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

#48

Post by mxuribe »

andrewclunn wrote: post #8

How can they hoard A.I. ? I mean software becomes cheaper really quickly. That's what I am not getting about this "warning."

Maybe if "AI" or "robots" or some equivalent automaton becomes a sort of de facto currency - that is, a gateway to prosperity...then it could be yet another resource hoarded by those who supposedly have power...i think that's what is meant.

Re: Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

#49

Post by johanneskanybal »

t0rb3n wrote: post #21
PavlovsCat wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extrapolate from current trends and the general apathy of the people who could change them. Is there anything you are aware of that would prevent it, other than "it might not happen, for some reason"?

You mean increasing life expectancy with unparalleled standard of living? Why would anyone want to prevent/change that?

https://thecurrentmoment.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/product...

Re: Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

#50

Post by cbeach »

sdk77 wrote: post #37
cbeach wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with an alternative to capitalism that isn't communism, or some dilute form of communism. We have socialism - the erosion of capitalism to provide a reward for those that won't or can't work. What's your "new possibility"? Without a proposal, your point is moot.

Capitalism can't be communism because one is a financial / economical system and the other is a political system. The two are related but not always in the same way. European countries, especially the Scandinavian ones are very Socialist and capitalist. China is an even 'weirder' example. There already are many different forms of capitalism as an economic system under different political systems.

Scandinavian countries aren't nearly as socialist or successful as non-Scandinavian socialists claim they are:

http://www.bullshitexposed.com/scandinavian-socialism-debunk...

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