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Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

failedevolution.blogspot.com

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Re: Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

#11

Post by lhecker »

arbuge wrote: post #2

With all due respect to Stephen Hawking, whose expertise in theoretical physics is undoubted, how would he be in a position to "confirm" this?

Because the linked article does not capture his original words well. Instead he said:

> If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed.

> Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution.

> So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality.

Re: Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

#13

Post by Houshalter »

Hawking does believe that AI will be a danger to humanity long term. The short term problems caused by near future robots is a different subject.

Capitalism isn't inherently the problem. We could have capitalism and tax capital owners at a high rate, and distribute the wealth much more evenly. It's possible everyone could become capital owners and it would be normal to live off interest instead of work. Like owning the robot that replaces your job.

This has happened before, kinds sorta. Everyone mentions farming has been automated almost completely. But the farmers mostly owned their own farms, and didn't all become unemployed, and instead benefited from it. However many farm laborers were forced to move to the city.

Re: Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

#14

Post by mjfl »

I've always found it ironic that these types of posts are popular on a news board for a venture capital group, arguably the pinnacle of capitalism. I see no reason why robots couldn't kickstart new REITs: Robot Estate Investment Trusts, that are open to investment from the middle class and others. I see no reason why they would be "hoarded" by: "the big banks", the "1%", and other boogeyman simply because they can afford to buy one or more round units. I think that such talk betrays a very naive view of capitalism.

Re: Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

#16

Post by carapat_virulat »

kingkawn wrote: post #10
cbeach wrote: post #5

Without capitalist advancement, prices would rise at a frightening rate. Decide what you want - fully stocked supermarket shelves thanks to capitalist efficiency. Or rationing, shortages and civil unrest thanks to government intervention in the markets and the dissolution of business.

Considering how deeply this community has internalized the importance of creative thought your analysis is pretty limiting to any new possibility being possible.

Everything is possible, except any small change in capitalism. [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK0vRYWtcOU

Re: Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

#17

Post by halviti »

cbeach wrote: post #5

Without capitalist advancement, prices would rise at a frightening rate. Decide what you want - fully stocked supermarket shelves thanks to capitalist efficiency. Or rationing, shortages and civil unrest thanks to government intervention in the markets and the dissolution of business.

Your comment makes the assumption that capitalism is a binary.

Re: Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

#18

Post by cbeach »

kingkawn wrote: post #10
cbeach wrote: post #5

Without capitalist advancement, prices would rise at a frightening rate. Decide what you want - fully stocked supermarket shelves thanks to capitalist efficiency. Or rationing, shortages and civil unrest thanks to government intervention in the markets and the dissolution of business.

Considering how deeply this community has internalized the importance of creative thought your analysis is pretty limiting to any new possibility being possible.

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with an alternative to capitalism that isn't communism, or some dilute form of communism.

We have socialism - the erosion of capitalism to provide a reward for those that won't or can't work.

What's your "new possibility"? Without a proposal, your point is moot.

Re: Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

#19

Post by elros »

cbeach wrote: post #5

Without capitalist advancement, prices would rise at a frightening rate. Decide what you want - fully stocked supermarket shelves thanks to capitalist efficiency. Or rationing, shortages and civil unrest thanks to government intervention in the markets and the dissolution of business.

[citation needed]

Re: Stephen Hawking confirms: The problem is Capitalism, not robots

#20

Post by sametmax »

cbeach wrote: post #5

Without capitalist advancement, prices would rise at a frightening rate. Decide what you want - fully stocked supermarket shelves thanks to capitalist efficiency. Or rationing, shortages and civil unrest thanks to government intervention in the markets and the dissolution of business.

That is assuming that capitalism is the only way to get this kind of efficiency.

In fact, it's the only way we could both imagine and successfully implement, but that's it.

On the other hand, we now know the limits of it, the corruption it brings, and that's a certitude.

So an intelligent and educated reaction is not to say "if you want result you need a self corrupting system" but rather "we like this abundance, and we can see our way to get it needs to be improved. How can we keep a balance between those ?"

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