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Maybe Greece Should Go Bankrupt

cato-at-liberty.org

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Re: Maybe Greece Should Go Bankrupt

#11

Post by _delirium »

dantheman wrote: post #4
_delirium wrote: post #2

The article keeps talking about how civil servants are overpaid, which I don't think is true. There are too many of them, but they aren't particularly well paid; the average is around €20,000.

In America many civil servants are overpaid when you look at total compensation. The amount of retirement that needs to be paid is ridiculous and most govs didn't actually set aside money to pay it.

That I agree with, but it's a more general issue about the temptation to make future promises you can't pay for, and is also true in the private sector. Employers in general, public and private, make promises of future payments they can't pay for, don't set aside the money, and just kick the can down the road to the next generation of management. It's one reason so many American companies go bankrupt about 30-40 years after their peak, which coincidentally is when their pension obligations start coming due.

Re: Maybe Greece Should Go Bankrupt

#13

Post by rglovejoy »

emilind wrote: post #9
rglovejoy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flagged. This is not Reddit.

I'm sorry, people are free to post right-wing propaganda, but not free to comment on it?

Your comment lacked substance, that is why I flagged it. The article itself was not propaganda, right-wing or otherwise. Calling people wingnuts does not contribute to the conversation.

Re: Maybe Greece Should Go Bankrupt

#14

Post by _delirium »

emilind wrote: post #9
rglovejoy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flagged. This is not Reddit.

I'm sorry, people are free to post right-wing propaganda, but not free to comment on it?

I suppose the ideal would be not to have such articles posted at all, since this isn't really the place for this sort of hyper-partisan stuff, whether from Cato or the Socialist Worker.

Re: Maybe Greece Should Go Bankrupt

#15

Post by dantheman »

_delirium wrote: post #11
dantheman wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America many civil servants are overpaid when you look at total compensation. The amount of retirement that needs to be paid is ridiculous and most govs didn't actually set aside money to pay it.

That I agree with, but it's a more general issue about the temptation to make future promises you can't pay for, and is also true in the private sector. Employers in general, public and private, make promises of future payments they can't pay for, don't set aside the money, and just kick the can down the road to the next generation of management. It's one reason so many American companies go bankrupt about 30-40 year…

I don't know of any modern corporations that have pensions -- it seems today that all companies use 401ks, they learned the lesson about pensions

Re: Maybe Greece Should Go Bankrupt

#16

Post by gyardley »

_delirium wrote: post #14
emilind wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, people are free to post right-wing propaganda, but not free to comment on it?

I suppose the ideal would be not to have such articles posted at all, since this isn't really the place for this sort of hyper-partisan stuff, whether from Cato or the Socialist Worker .

The content of the article should be evaluated on its own merits, whatever your opinion of the source. Even the most partisan individual can make a good argument.

Re: Maybe Greece Should Go Bankrupt

#17

Post by iujhygfbh »

_delirium wrote: post #10
iujhygfbh wrote: post #8

What exactly does it mean for a country to go bankrupt? Do the creditors get the assets? If a chinese construction company is owed money for a government project do they get part of the country?

It just means they default on the loans. The creditors only get what the country chooses to give them (if anything), which is usually negotiated with some eye towards balancing the country's interests against the harm to their future ability to get loans if they screw the creditors too much. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_(finance)#Sovereign_def...

But bankrupt means you don't run the company/country anymore - they call in the receivers, and KPMG or whoever sell off the assets for scrap.

Re: Maybe Greece Should Go Bankrupt

#18

Post by davidw »

gyardley wrote: post #16
_delirium wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose the ideal would be not to have such articles posted at all, since this isn't really the place for this sort of hyper-partisan stuff, whether from Cato or the Socialist Worker .

The content of the article should be evaluated on its own merits, whatever your opinion of the source. Even the most partisan individual can make a good argument.

It simply is not hacker news, though, unless people want to turn this into some sort of political debate site, which would be very, very easy. It's way easier to find articles about politics and economics than it is to find good articles about hacking and startups, and they're far 'stickier' in terms of drawing people into lengthly, pointless discussions that end up in flame wars. As this thread demonstrates quite well.

Re: Maybe Greece Should Go Bankrupt

#19

Post by _delirium »

iujhygfbh wrote: post #17
_delirium wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It just means they default on the loans. The creditors only get what the country chooses to give them (if anything), which is usually negotiated with some eye towards balancing the country's interests against the harm to their future ability to get loans if they screw the creditors too much. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_(finance)#Sovereign_def...

But bankrupt means you don't run the company/country anymore - they call in the receivers, and KPMG or whoever sell off the assets for scrap.

Yeah, from that definition of bankruptcy it's a poor choice of words, because sovereign countries can't go bankrupt in the sense that bankruptcy law means. They're colloquially bankrupt in the sense of "not able to pay their bills", but not legally in the sense of "in court-supervised receivership"--- because there is no world government, and therefore no bankruptcy court with jurisdiction.

Re: Maybe Greece Should Go Bankrupt

#20

Post by iujhygfbh »

_delirium wrote: post #19
iujhygfbh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But bankrupt means you don't run the company/country anymore - they call in the receivers, and KPMG or whoever sell off the assets for scrap.

Yeah, from that definition of bankruptcy it's a poor choice of words, because sovereign countries can't go bankrupt in the sense that bankruptcy law means. They're colloquially bankrupt in the sense of "not able to pay their bills", but not legally in the sense of "in court-supervised receivership"--- because there is no world government, and therefore no bankruptcy court with jurisdiction.

Interesting idea though for a small country like Tuvavlu - just sell the country to the highest bidder. If say an online gambling company wants to be sure of favorable treatment it could just buy the government wholesale instead of having to buy it one politician at a time.

It's only what say Lichtenstein, the channel islands, Bermuda have de-facto done.

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