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Ethereum: Rise of the World Computer

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31–40 of 243 posts

Re: Ethereum: Rise of the World Computer

#31

What are the costs like for building resource intensive apps on ethereum? Would be interested in comparing with centralized compute providers.

The cost comparison you want to look for is where people pay a very high premium for the execution of business logic by a trusted counterparty. In other words, its not cheaper computation in general, it's cheaper computation for trusted services (eg. financial instruments).

Re: Ethereum: Rise of the World Computer

#32

The article is pretty light on technical details. Does Ethereum suffer from the same design limitation as Bitcoin, where every operation must be verified by every node? If so, I have a really hard time believing it will scale. Look how much difficulty the Bitcoin network is having with just a couple of transactions per second.

It's not meant to be used for 'distributed' computation.

Re: Ethereum: Rise of the World Computer

#33
post #2

I wonder to what extent is the price rise a bubble, and to what extent it's valuation of the potential.

Look at the full stock price history of any company which became very valuable, and you'll see bubbles and busts along the way. Whether the market's calculations of Ethereum's potential is correct remains to be seen, we'll have to see what gets built on it over the next few years.

Re: Ethereum: Rise of the World Computer

#34
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its technically in the "frontier" stage, which means that its in "beta" of sorts. There are lots of developers working on Ethereum dapps and it is more than useable, however consumers should be aware there may be loss-causing bugs around.

[deleted]

Kind of ironic how much this argument was used against bitcoin back in the day...

Re: Ethereum: Rise of the World Computer

#35

The article is pretty light on technical details. Does Ethereum suffer from the same design limitation as Bitcoin, where every operation must be verified by every node? If so, I have a really hard time believing it will scale. Look how much difficulty the Bitcoin network is having with just a couple of transactions per second.

Every computation runs on every instance of Ethereum, yes.

It is important to note that this is not a resource for distributed general computation - it's for running smart contracts. Per the Ethereum development tutorial, "you will not be able to do anything on the EVM that you cannot do on a smartphone from 1999." https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Ethereum-Development-T...

This is not a very good article - it's rather breathless and short on technical detail. In particular, calling it "the World Computer" is completely not what Ethereum will be capable of.

Re: Ethereum: Rise of the World Computer

#37

The article is pretty light on technical details. Does Ethereum suffer from the same design limitation as Bitcoin, where every operation must be verified by every node? If so, I have a really hard time believing it will scale. Look how much difficulty the Bitcoin network is having with just a couple of transactions per second.

One key difference with Bitcoin is that, unlike Bitcoin, Ethereum has an account based architecture. In other words, you have an account that is credited or debited, and you then have a current balance for that account. If you need to get your balance or send ether, you just look up a single number.

Bitcoin on the other hand uses an "Unspent Transaction Output" architecture. Basically your balance is made up of all of the credits and debits (inputs and outputs) you've made with that account. So sending bitcoins requires referencing "unspent outputs".. which may be lots and lots of different transactions.

That's one difference, and there are others, such as the time taken to confirm blocks (current block time on ethereum is 16s). But there are still lots of scalability issues to be addressed, which are actively being worked on.

Vitalik Buterin has a great couple of posts on some of the issues:

https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/09/17/scalability-part-1-buil...

edit: Not sure why this was getting downvoted. Just to clarify, in case it seemed like I wasn't answering the parent. The points above are one of the ways in which "every operation must be verified by every node" is less costly on Ethereum. Obviously if it takes less compute time per transaction, you can scale to larger numbers of transactions per second. Ethereum has already passed Bitcoin in this regard, and has hit at least 8 transactions per seconds at one point, while Bitcoin's ceiling is 7 transactions per second. In addition, prior to launch I believe they managed to push the test network up to 25 transactions per second.

Re: Ethereum: Rise of the World Computer

#38
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bitcoin network is not having much difficulty with a couple of transactions per second. It is the community that struggles with adjusting to an appropriate throughput.

How do I continue using Bitcoin as a transactional currency if I can't perform transactions with it?

well, you couldn't. Peter Todd is a btc dev and provided a lot of thinking on the tradeoffs. He stated in an interview (fairly confident in this) a 100x improvement in speed and is in favour of not increasing block size. Should check it out, the intetview was on a podcast on the LTB network on itunes.

So you will be able to. He has done a lot of thinking around tree chains and scaling and optimiztion.

Btc is limited inamount of coins and came first, its value is as a currency.

Eth is the first popular blockchaindb. Coins are needed to pay miners and powet dapps.

If a currency cant be traded it idnt worth anything, however sidechains seem to provide a way to convert from one to another

Re: Ethereum: Rise of the World Computer

#39

The article is pretty light on technical details. Does Ethereum suffer from the same design limitation as Bitcoin, where every operation must be verified by every node? If so, I have a really hard time believing it will scale. Look how much difficulty the Bitcoin network is having with just a couple of transactions per second.

That's a political problem with the miners and developers. There's no technical reason they couldn't raise the block size.

You shouldn't ignore political problems when it comes to distributed systems...

Additionally, raising the block size cap is only a stopgap measure. Eventually you will reach hard bandwidth or disk storage limits and the only way will be to throw some transactions outside the blockchain.

Re: Ethereum: Rise of the World Computer

#40

I get spammed daily on Reddit from bots supporting Ethereum (currency) - so the name causes hatred for me already.

I get those too. All the messages I've gotten have had similar-looking random names from new accounts, so I think it's one idiot with a bot. Ethereum devs have asked this person to stop, subreddit admins have asked people to use the spam report button, but only Reddit employees can actually do anything about it.
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