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"You Need a Co-Founder, Not an Engineering Bitch..."

metamorphblog.com

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Re: "You Need a Co-Founder, Not an Engineering Bitch..."

#21

Post by stanleydrew »

shin_lao wrote: post #20
thomaspaine wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that experienced people cost a lot of money, and since they are typically older with things like a family to support, mortgage to pay, etc, are going to be more risk averse. Especially in the early stages, all projects are more or less a crapshoot, so in order to tempt someone away from that 200k a year job, you're going to need to hand over a lot of equity, raise a lot of money, or overpower them with…

Well, first of all don't go to people thinking why they might turn you down. People don't care about money, as long as you can pay them enough to pay the rent / mortgage and the little extras in life. If you don't have that kind of money, you're doomed anyway. Offer them a dream job. If they believe in the project, they know money will come later. On a really tight budget? Recruit less. 2 seniors instead of 5 juniors…

I appreciate your optimism, but in real life most people do care about money.

Re: "You Need a Co-Founder, Not an Engineering Bitch..."

#23

Post by FreeRadical »

torpor wrote: post #13

I was a co-founder for a major ISP in the 90's, but got treated like the Engineering-Bitch instead of as an equal, so I left .. within a year, the guy I started the company with was worth millions, and I was still churning through startup after startup .. okay, I escaped with my own integrity intact (avoided having to deal with a later Federal investigation into the investors of the company) but there is a lesson to…

Can you clarify what you mean by 'get the ducks in a row' please? It's not a term I'm familiar with.

Re: "You Need a Co-Founder, Not an Engineering Bitch..."

#24

Post by dkarl »

shin_lao wrote: post #20
thomaspaine wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that experienced people cost a lot of money, and since they are typically older with things like a family to support, mortgage to pay, etc, are going to be more risk averse. Especially in the early stages, all projects are more or less a crapshoot, so in order to tempt someone away from that 200k a year job, you're going to need to hand over a lot of equity, raise a lot of money, or overpower them with…

Well, first of all don't go to people thinking why they might turn you down. People don't care about money, as long as you can pay them enough to pay the rent / mortgage and the little extras in life. If you don't have that kind of money, you're doomed anyway. Offer them a dream job. If they believe in the project, they know money will come later. On a really tight budget? Recruit less. 2 seniors instead of 5 juniors…

People don't care about money, as long as you can pay them enough to pay the rent / mortgage and the little extras in life.

With that pitch your best bet is empty-nesters and retired folks itching to get back in the game.

Otherwise, it isn't just the mortgage. It's the mortgage, the car payment, car insurance, a month-long overseas vacations you've planned out a year in advance, kids' dental, your in-laws taking your kids on a skiing vacation (but you're paying), the kids going to tennis/band/nerd camp, time to replace the refrigerator, the couch has a funny smell you can't get rid of.... (I'm paying special attention to my older coworkers so I know why I'm saving my money.)

The college kid is probably sleeping on a couch that an experienced engineer had to throw out because prosperous forty-year-old people aren't allowed to have furniture that smells funny. The college kid doesn't care if the roof leaks, because that's the landlord's problem. (Maybe's he's paying a few hundred a month for a bedroom and his name isn't even on the lease.) The refrigerator needs to be replaced? Lemme check. Nope, the beer's still cold.

Retired people, on the other hand, live like college students except with better hygiene, different recreational choices, and more regular sleep schedules.

Re: "You Need a Co-Founder, Not an Engineering Bitch..."

#25

Post by csbrooks »

FreeRadical wrote: post #23
torpor wrote: post #13

I was a co-founder for a major ISP in the 90's, but got treated like the Engineering-Bitch instead of as an equal, so I left .. within a year, the guy I started the company with was worth millions, and I was still churning through startup after startup .. okay, I escaped with my own integrity intact (avoided having to deal with a later Federal investigation into the investors of the company) but there is a lesson to…

Can you clarify what you mean by 'get the ducks in a row' please? It's not a term I'm familiar with.

I can't answer to what the parent post specifically means here by it, but it just means "get everything in order". Pay attention to the details, plan for different possibilities, think through what might happen. That sort of thing.

Re: "You Need a Co-Founder, Not an Engineering Bitch..."

#26

Post by anamax »

thomaspaine wrote: post #16
shin_lao wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I'll go even further: hire only experienced people at the beginning, so that they can mentor college kids when you hire them (fresh new blood is always a nice addition). If you can't convince experienced people to come on board, something is wrong with your project.

The problem is that experienced people cost a lot of money, and since they are typically older with things like a family to support, mortgage to pay, etc, are going to be more risk averse. Especially in the early stages, all projects are more or less a crapshoot, so in order to tempt someone away from that 200k a year job, you're going to need to hand over a lot of equity, raise a lot of money, or overpower them with…

> Especially in the early stages, all projects are more or less a crapshoot, so in order to tempt someone away from that 200k a year job, you're going to need to hand over a lot of equity, raise a lot of money, or overpower them with sheer force of charisma.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Frankly, I look for a biz guy who has an extreme amount of charisma because that can really help a biz.

Re: "You Need a Co-Founder, Not an Engineering Bitch..."

#27

Post by fnid2 »

It's a disservice to the article to retitle the post from the author's original. This is the best advice: "Tenacity is impressive."

Just keep at it and keep doing stuff and eventually, you'll be on your own with money coming in and that's what matters. Creating work is hard. Doing work is easy. Your job as an entrepreneur is to create enough work that you can pay yourself and others.

If you've never started a company and you're earning $60k a year, it's not hard to forget that someone is taking $60k out of their pocket and giving it to you which means someone else is too and as an individual on your own, it's hard to convince people to give you $60k a year for stuff you do.

Re: "You Need a Co-Founder, Not an Engineering Bitch..."

#29

Post by MediaSquirrel »

cookiecaper wrote: post #9
nostrademons wrote: post #8

Caveat on the "hire college students": You need at least someone on the engineering team that's experienced and has seen all the ways that large systems can go terribly, horribly wrong. Ideally that'll be one of the founders, because you'll have a tough time convincing someone experienced to join otherwise. But occasionally someone loves the product idea enough to commit. Otherwise, a team of inexperienced college st…

This is good advice. I once worked under a kid just out of college -- he had connections to the big bosses -- and while he was smart and good for the amount of experience he'd had, the system got really, really messed up under his naive direction. I quit out of frustration. It's important to respect experience and ascribe proper placement to it in your organization. You want someone seasoned calling the shots, not a…

Well, it depends. The college kid we hired had been coding since age 13, had passed up Harvard for a free ride at a lesser name regional school, and had interned for IBM & Lockheed Martin before. Dude serious had his shit together.

That said, my co-founder is 33 and had previous startup experience.

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