Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 293 posts

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone

#281

Post by newjersey »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #69
newjersey wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a suspicion but I imagine the narrative that FBI, DEA, ATF, IRS or any federal agency is frustrated that the NSA won't share its toys with them has some truth to it. Of course, it makes sense. Complying to very single request would leave NSA as mere peons.

It was just a couple years ago that the FBI was lamenting the fact that it was having trouble hiring hackers because they all smoke pot. I only cite that as it asserts that the FBI does in fact employ teams of digital hackers. The NSA surely has better/more, but if the FBI needs into an iPhone I'm sure they could do it on their own.

I don't know anything about the FBI or the NSA but I doubt the FBI would have remotely the same budget for zero day bugs. (:

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone

#282

Post by lern_too_spel »

oldmanjay wrote: post #280
lern_too_spel wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the standard build does not have the capability to bypass the lock screen and extract data.

I can't find any statements indicating this required a special build, just normal access to the storage. If you have some citation for this I'd appreciate it.

On the standard build, normal access to storage only works if you've unlocked the phone.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone

#283

Post by lern_too_spel »

zepto wrote: post #279
lern_too_spel wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the standard build does not have the capability to bypass the lock screen and extract data.

What makes you think such a build has been used before?

That Apple has said so in their transparency reports.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone

#284

Post by deepnet »

haberman wrote: post #117

I'm really trying to figure out what this case is really about, vs. what the players are saying it is about. The government says it just wants to unlock this one iPhone. But is it really just looking for a legal precedent in a case that the public is likely to support the unlocking? Apple says is it afraid of creating a "master key" that could fall into the wrong hands. But doesn't it already have such a key, in the…

Facebook 'protecting' user data is so laughable that it suggests this is all public reassurance theatre.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone

#285

Post by Avshalom »

tn13 wrote: post #276
Avshalom wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When has this free market existed? And how has it not been explicitly provided by the government; what markets we've had at various points in history have always been fought for and defended from others by their parent governments.

That is the only job governments are supposed to do. Protect freedom of its subjects from outsiders. You cant credit the Bank's security guard for the wealth that the bank builds.

You can when the bank was created by the guard in the first place.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone

#286

Post by Kluny »

Zarel wrote: post #216
Kluny wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are pretty good with customer support and transparency. It's just that we have hundreds of sites, and about half are on a dedicated server. We asked that it be moved to Portland when they opened up a new datacenter there, but they moved it to Virginia instead - I guess Portland wasn't ready or something. Anyway, our sites were in Virginia and our database was in Portland, and the latency between the two got out…

Yeah, that'd be the "minor problem" I mentioned. Their shared hosting is great for $10/month, but my site eventually grew out of it. Their dedicated servers were out of my price range so I never tried them. I currently use OVH for dedicated servers. Low prices (starting at $70/mo), unlimited bandwidth use (most other hosts charge for bandwidth above a certain amount), DDoS protection as a standard feature (most hosts…

Thanks for the tip. I mentioned OVH to my boss and he checked it out, and liked what they offer well enough to try it. We're going to be migrating in the next couple weeks. The fact that they have a datacenter in Canada and none in the states really helped.

Did you get any information about what the deal is with Dreamhost? I want to give them the benefit of doubt because they have been great for a couple years - their live chat is especially useful for me, and their backend is easy to work with. But this move to Portland that they have going on seems to be an absolute shitshow, and I wish we could get a proper explanation for what is going on over there.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone

#287

Post by karmelapple »

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #56
karmelapple wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. The court of public opinion may not sway technologists, but it will determine what law makers feel the need to propose, based on their constituents demands. We have to make it very easy for the general public to understand what's going on at an incredibly simple, "oh I get it" gut level. Simple words communicated simply will go a long ways to showing the importance of keeping good security practices in place…

> but it will determine what law makers feel the need to propose, based on their constituents demands. Where can I sign up for that Congress? Is that opt-in? Because that sounds great.

The way you can make your voice - and everyone else's - heard is in votes. Organize a coalition against a politician you think is bad. Get donations. Run ads.

Not saying it's easy, but when it comes to election day, that politician truly does hinge on the majority of people filling in the bubble by one name. If you can make that not happen a real threat in the candidate's mind, they'll listen to your desires.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone

#288

Post by intrasight »

wildmusings wrote: post #179
intrasight wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, and here's why it is different. If Apple had a "thing" and a warrant said "give us this thing", then Apple would be compelled to turn over the thing. But Apple doesn't have this thing (the software to hack their own security). The government is saying "make us this thing", ie asking Apple to execute the warrant - which is unprecedented - it's the governments job to execute the warrant not a private compan…

So if instead, the government asked for Apple's source code, build system, code-signing key, and flashing hardware, would that be okay to you? It's not completely unprecedented to require active assistance from a third-party. There's a Supreme Court case about this very issue, United States vs New York Telephone Co . The FBI wanted New York Telephone to install monitoring hardware on their premises and assist the gov…

Yeah, actually that would be ok with me. Because those are "things". But if there is a legal precedent for demanding services, then I guess my point is mute. I guess Apple could charge one billion dollars per person/hour. That MIGHT be enough to cover their costs.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone

#289

Post by Zarel »

Kluny wrote: post #286
Zarel wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that'd be the "minor problem" I mentioned. Their shared hosting is great for $10/month, but my site eventually grew out of it. Their dedicated servers were out of my price range so I never tried them. I currently use OVH for dedicated servers. Low prices (starting at $70/mo), unlimited bandwidth use (most other hosts charge for bandwidth above a certain amount), DDoS protection as a standard feature (most hosts…

Thanks for the tip. I mentioned OVH to my boss and he checked it out, and liked what they offer well enough to try it. We're going to be migrating in the next couple weeks. The fact that they have a datacenter in Canada and none in the states really helped. Did you get any information about what the deal is with Dreamhost? I want to give them the benefit of doubt because they have been great for a couple years - thei…

I don't know, I don't really pay attention to the details of what's going on at Dreamhost... I haven't read anything weird in their monthly newsletter, either.

There are parts I like and parts I dislike about the Dreamhost backend. The email stuff is really clunky. The other stuff isn't great, either, tbh. I like how easy it is to upgrade to PHP 7, though...

Incidentally, I think I was using around 20 TB of bandwidth a month when Dreamhost "subtly" started hinting that I should move on from their $8/mo shared hosting.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Backs Apple in Its Refusal to Unlock iPhone

#290

Post by spinlock »

thrownear wrote: post #51
spinlock wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your being downvoted because the techies on hn are concerned with security, not ownership. Apple complying with the government makes everyone less secure. We aren't as worried about judicial over reach as we are with creating tools that will be used to commit crimes. Good security will keep out anyone that does not know the secret. That includes "owners." The concept of ownership is irrelevant to the design o…

>I think your being downvoted because the techies on hn are concerned with security, not ownership. I made this post last day [1]. It received 3 votes. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11149716

Please don't get discouraged. People might have misunderstood what you meant. There's also the problem with asking other people to spend their time and money on your request. If you want this to happen, you should provide a proof of concept and get people excited about buying it. If you develop a market, others will implement your solution.
Post reply on HN