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TTIP Enters New and Dangerous Stage as Democracy Is Dismantled in Secret

truepublica.org.uk

101–110 of 208 posts

Re: TTIP Enters New and Dangerous Stage as Democracy Is Dismantled in Secret

#101
post #69

"Representative democracy is often presented as the only form of democracy possible in mass societies. It arguably allows for efficient ruling by a sufficiently small number of people on behalf of the larger number." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_democracy Democracy is more a form of elitism than "power to the people". It has always been like that. Another system is possible (like Futarchy or a form of…

Well don't forget the idea of direct democracy where we leverage modern IT and allow the people to vote directly on issues, eliminating the need for representatives whom are, of course, often corrupted by monied interests. Many movements and initiatives currently exist promoting this method of government[1] [1] http://aceproject.org/ace-en/focus/direct-democracy/citizen-...

The idea of open citizen voting directly on all issues terrifies me. I see democratic representation as a way to pay someone to read and understand all of the legal jargon most people won't take the time to bother with.

People don't take time to read their medicine bottle warnings, let alone the contents of the new Higher Education Act. I'm honestly afraid that righteous attitudes fueled by ignorance would rule.

It would put an incredible amount of power in the hands of mass-media as well (more than they already have). Well-designed and well-timed stories can sway public opinion waaaay too easily.

Combine that with how the government seems to handle IT security issues in these type of large-scale projects, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Re: TTIP Enters New and Dangerous Stage as Democracy Is Dismantled in Secret

#103
post #51
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we just found out that 6/7 of our countries MEP's in Parliament voted for TTIP without even reading it. With no consultation or anything else. I have very low hopes that reason will prevail in this case.

> Well, we just found out that 6/7 of our countries MEP's in Parliament voted for TTIP without even reading it. Voted for a not-yet negotiated trade agreement? Are you sure you've not misunderstood this? http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/ttip/about-ttip/pr...

I was talking about the preliminary resolution on 9. Jul. 2015. While that indeed wasn't a final voting, I have still little hope that the result will be any different.

Re: TTIP Enters New and Dangerous Stage as Democracy Is Dismantled in Secret

#104

Hey smart folks, How does TTIP affect small business, and startups in Australia-Canda-America-Asia? How does TTIP affect small business, and startups in the Pacifics?

Nobody knows what's in it because it's being kept secret.

Re: TTIP Enters New and Dangerous Stage as Democracy Is Dismantled in Secret

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human stupidity is infinite, not our inventiveness. Einstein's words, not mine.

So you accept oligarchial rule because you don't trust your fellow man? What a sad world you live in.

How did you come with this dichotomy?

Re: TTIP Enters New and Dangerous Stage as Democracy Is Dismantled in Secret

#106
post #91
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can shred something to pieces then maybe it shouldn't be signed? And if it was good then they wouldn't be able to shred it to pieces. Sounds like you'd be afraid of public discourse.

That is unbelievably naive, or immature. One of the two, I'm not sure which. Public discourse isn't the same as what happens when the media spins a narrative about a piece of legislation. You and I both know they don't need truth to make a story. And small-time politicians looking to make a name for themselves will always impede the process, regardless of whether or not it's a good process. Having the public voice th…

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Re: TTIP Enters New and Dangerous Stage as Democracy Is Dismantled in Secret

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what time and place exactly was the "old" world order democratic?

Rome

Rome? The Roman Republic was an oligarchy ruled by the Senate, made of the richest families of Rome. After its fall, the last pretenses fell apart. You would have better luck with Athens.

Re: TTIP Enters New and Dangerous Stage as Democracy Is Dismantled in Secret

#109
post #4

It's especially frightening for us Europeans, that TTIP can overrule existing local legislature, and that officials representing EU states only have access to the full text of 600 pages for 2 hours every thursday, accompanied by two security guards beside you at all times, behind closed doors, after the metal detector where you have leave all your electronics and recording devices behind. Oh, and you're not allowed t…

How can that be seen as reasonable in any way, shape, or form?

Re: TTIP Enters New and Dangerous Stage as Democracy Is Dismantled in Secret

#110
post #4

It's especially frightening for us Europeans, that TTIP can overrule existing local legislature, and that officials representing EU states only have access to the full text of 600 pages for 2 hours every thursday, accompanied by two security guards beside you at all times, behind closed doors, after the metal detector where you have leave all your electronics and recording devices behind. Oh, and you're not allowed t…

> It's especially frightening for us Europeans, that TTIP can overrule existing local legislature

That should be nothing new, since the EU has been doing that for ages. Just ask the Britons who would prefer to continue using their traditional measures instead of French measures. Just ask those European states whose people would prefer to retain capital punishment.

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