I haven't seen much on the ad data side of this. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if a publisher switches to AMP, then all of their ad serving data (and by extension impression data for all of their visitors that Google is able to identify) becomes Google's data essentially. Whereas before, if a publisher wasn't running DFP, AdSense, or GA, then Google was essentially blind to their ad data. So does this or does t…
Okay but what publisher isn't using DFP, AdSense, or GA. Have you seen the media sites being targeted here? Take any one and watch the dozen or more 3rd party domains it hits. Their data goes everywhere already, including to Google.
Google Seeks to Pacify Consumers with Faster Mobile Pages
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Re: Google Seeks to Pacify Consumers with Faster Mobile Pages
#42There's a lot of Google negativity here (perhaps not without reason), but when you view the AMP spec and what it tries to solve for, it feels like a smart move to help broaden the adoption of sensible but poorly understood optimizations: https://www.ampproject.org/docs/get_started/technical_overvi... Those optimizations are worth looking over even if you don't plan on adopting AMP. I do think that rather than requiri…
Does this mean that only inline styling is supported? Or just that styling should be included on the page in a tag.
Re: Google Seeks to Pacify Consumers with Faster Mobile Pages
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the page load overhead in adding this for each user?
It's an 8kB async-loaded JS script, and then it posts a small (1kB) amount of data back to my servers. Overhead should be tiny, and it's async so it won't block page rendering.
Re: Google Seeks to Pacify Consumers with Faster Mobile Pages
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think the browser specs are broken such there will always be pathological cases, and always cases where 'you're on the performance rails'. End users don't care. In the case of GPU acceleration, the specs are not broken. There is no fundamental reason why animations on arbitrary properties cannot be GPU accelerated and some can be. Ask anyone who's worked with Scaleform whether rapidly changing vector graphics (wh…
I think you have a different idea of what gpu acceleration means here. When we say that animating transform and opacity is fast, it means that we can animate it without rasterizing content over and over again i.e. only use composition. This is independent of how rasterization takes place. Rasterization itself can be gpu accelerated, Chrome has started doing this on mobile[1]. Animating other CSS properties such as fo…
Optimally implemented, I believe there should be no difference between "rasterization" and "compositing". You're painting the same number of pixels, paying the same fragment shading and rop cost, either way. Caching fully rendered Web content in textures assuming that the cost of rasterizing that content is high isn't working very well, and I think it's not worth it.
[1]: http://wdobbie.com/post/gpu-text-rendering-with-vector-textu...
Re: Google Seeks to Pacify Consumers with Faster Mobile Pages
#45I haven't seen much on the ad data side of this. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if a publisher switches to AMP, then all of their ad serving data (and by extension impression data for all of their visitors that Google is able to identify) becomes Google's data essentially. Whereas before, if a publisher wasn't running DFP, AdSense, or GA, then Google was essentially blind to their ad data. So does this or does t…
Okay but what publisher isn't using DFP, AdSense, or GA. Have you seen the media sites being targeted here? Take any one and watch the dozen or more 3rd party domains it hits. Their data goes everywhere already, including to Google.
And for anything not run through DFP and not on Google inventory, this would now give them visibility into those ads, potentially bid data from the headers, potentially audience data for anything passed in plaintext (surprisingly common), etc. Or am I missing something in terms of the data they would see?
Re: Google Seeks to Pacify Consumers with Faster Mobile Pages
#46I've already gone to great lengths to optimize my mobile site. I am fully confident that AMP cannot possibly make my site any faster. Every page on my site loads via a single HTTP request that transfers 10k of gzipped JS and HTML all at once. Loading an additional script with an extra request for another JS file is completely against my mobile design principles. Should people like me start using AMP anyway to stay re…
You are inlining the script on the same html page? Hope you are using chunked transfers so it will render sooner, pre-gzipped streams end up not being chunked in nginx. Google has already said AMP is not used as a ranking signal (but mobile friendliness is).
Re: Google Seeks to Pacify Consumers with Faster Mobile Pages
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you have a different idea of what gpu acceleration means here. When we say that animating transform and opacity is fast, it means that we can animate it without rasterizing content over and over again i.e. only use composition. This is independent of how rasterization takes place. Rasterization itself can be gpu accelerated, Chrome has started doing this on mobile[1]. Animating other CSS properties such as fo…
I know how it works. I wrote much of the layout and graphics code for Servo and did the initial bringup of the compositor on Firefox Mobile. You shouldn't have to rasterize new content on every frame when you animate font-size (except for individual glyphs, but that's still quick, just a few ms, if you parallelize it—and even with techniques like SDFs and/or GPU vector graphics tricks like [1] you may not even need t…
I agree that the browser should be more like a game engine, and less like an X11 buffered window system, in terms of just rasterizing faster enough to render 60fps. But it seems like to me that the CSS spec contains a number of features (rounded corners, soft shadows, etc) that by themselves can be rendered fast on a GPU, but cobbled together in a complex scene graph might result in stalls.
Re: Google Seeks to Pacify Consumers with Faster Mobile Pages
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know how it works. I wrote much of the layout and graphics code for Servo and did the initial bringup of the compositor on Firefox Mobile. You shouldn't have to rasterize new content on every frame when you animate font-size (except for individual glyphs, but that's still quick, just a few ms, if you parallelize it—and even with techniques like SDFs and/or GPU vector graphics tricks like [1] you may not even need t…
Does using a font-atlas really deliver the same quality as fully hinted true-type fonts? Also, this demo doesn't really have any state changes in it. Wouldn't a more realistic example be of a UI that contains mainly different font weights and sizes, to better gauge the effects of all of the pipeline state changes. I agree that the browser should be more like a game engine, and less like an X11 buffered window system,…
Hinting really isn't important on mobile or HiDPI. In fact, no version of OS X or iOS does it. (I don't know about Android, but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't on HiDPI screens.)
What's more interesting is antialiasing quality, especially subpixel AA. That's something I think needs more investigation. But I'm cautiously optimistic; there's been some really exciting work in GPU AA and vector graphics lately :)
> Wouldn't a more realistic example be of a UI that contains mainly different font weights and sizes, to better gauge the effects of all of the pipeline state changes.
Don't change state then. :)
State changes really shouldn't be necessary. If you set things up properly, you should be able to render arbitrarily many glyphs with one draw call, bound only by your texture atlas size.
> But it seems like to me that the CSS spec contains a number of features (rounded corners, soft shadows, etc) that by themselves can be rendered fast on a GPU, but cobbled together in a complex scene graph might result in stalls.
They typically don't. The key is to render critical resources like that to a texture atlas and to batch like resources together as you do so. (For example, batch all box shadow pieces together into one draw call, batch all rounded corners into another, etc.) This effectively places a small fixed upper bound on the number of draw calls you issue. Then you can rerender the page for each animation frame with a very small number of draw calls (frequently just one) and a simple blitting shader. If you get your draw call/state change overhead down, essentially nothing on the Web comes close to taxing a modern GPU; GPUs are incredibly fast at rendering batches.
My talk goes into more details, if you're curious: https://air.mozilla.org/bay-area-rust-meetup-february-2016/
Re: Google Seeks to Pacify Consumers with Faster Mobile Pages
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does using a font-atlas really deliver the same quality as fully hinted true-type fonts? Also, this demo doesn't really have any state changes in it. Wouldn't a more realistic example be of a UI that contains mainly different font weights and sizes, to better gauge the effects of all of the pipeline state changes. I agree that the browser should be more like a game engine, and less like an X11 buffered window system,…
> Does using a font-atlas really deliver the same quality as fully hinted true-type fonts? Hinting really isn't important on mobile or HiDPI. In fact, no version of OS X or iOS does it. (I don't know about Android, but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't on HiDPI screens.) What's more interesting is antialiasing quality, especially subpixel AA. That's something I think needs more investigation. But I'm cautiously o…
What's the status of Servo BTW? I mean in terms of HTML/CSS spec completeness.
Edit: just saw the demo in the video, awesome job!
Re: Google Seeks to Pacify Consumers with Faster Mobile Pages
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Does using a font-atlas really deliver the same quality as fully hinted true-type fonts? Hinting really isn't important on mobile or HiDPI. In fact, no version of OS X or iOS does it. (I don't know about Android, but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't on HiDPI screens.) What's more interesting is antialiasing quality, especially subpixel AA. That's something I think needs more investigation. But I'm cautiously o…
Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. What's the status of Servo BTW? I mean in terms of HTML/CSS spec completeness. Edit: just saw the demo in the video, awesome job!