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Dear Skype/Microsoft: Problems with Linux client

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Re: Dear Skype/Microsoft: Problems with Linux client

#451

Post by digi_owl »

Klathmon wrote: post #373
anexprogrammer wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course LTE and HTML video is better :p Having so many apps constantly spitting unnecessary data out to trackers and heaven knows what isn't better. Neither is simple apps that can't cope when you go out of data coverage, which seems to be becoming more common. I'd rather have gnome 2 than 3, I'd rather have Win 7 than 10 or XP. I don't consider any of them the pinnacle of design, but I don't think they're currentl…

Just because software isn't moving in a way that you personally want doesn't mean it's wrong or that it was objectively "better" before. We don't have apps that work offline? Maybe look around more. FFS half of the web apps i use work fine offline. And claiming that there has been no innovation in the OS space for years is silly. There is plenty of innovation, it's just that people don't like change and will instantl…

The ip command is a monstrosity. It is basically trying to emulate Cisco's IOS in a command to placate those that want to use Linux as their router firmware.

compare something simple as enabling a network card using ifconfig vs using ip, as you can easily tell the difference. You end up 3 layers deep before you can even enter the card id you want to do anything with!

When seasoned kernel devs don't want to touch a tool, warning lights should come on.

Re: Dear Skype/Microsoft: Problems with Linux client

#452

Post by pfooti »

cm3 wrote: post #171

For an excellent and disruption-free experience I use Mumble and if I have to WebRTC, but the browser experience isn't as stable, performant and reliable. Nothing beats Mumble if video isn't a requirement. You can join free Mumble servers, host your own or rent a server. It's open source, so you're not at the whim of a company and integration with your operating system is much better. update 1: https://wiki.mumble.in…

I use mumble for a lot of informal communication stuff, I installed a server on a $5 digital ocean droplet, and it works quite well.

Re: Dear Skype/Microsoft: Problems with Linux client

#453

Post by Nullabillity »

pritambarhate wrote: post #117
nakedrobot2 wrote: post #31

Skype worked far, far better 10 years ago than it does today. From all indications I've seen, Skype is getting dramatically worse all the time. From a personal standpoint, it crashes for me multiple times a day and I can rarely get group calls working on the first try. Often Skype requires a force-quit and then it crashes twice more when it is being restarted. This is on Mac and Android. Fun fact: I have a friend who…

In the past year, the Mac client has also become very fragile. If I quit the Skype App without signing out, next time login keeps failing unless I go to the library folder and delete my Skype user profile directory. Quite shameful for such a high profile software.

I've got this problem on Linux as well occasionally, but usually killing any lingering Skype processes fixes it.

Re: Dear Skype/Microsoft: Problems with Linux client

#454

Post by Klathmon »

digi_owl wrote: post #451
Klathmon wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because software isn't moving in a way that you personally want doesn't mean it's wrong or that it was objectively "better" before. We don't have apps that work offline? Maybe look around more. FFS half of the web apps i use work fine offline. And claiming that there has been no innovation in the OS space for years is silly. There is plenty of innovation, it's just that people don't like change and will instantl…

The ip command is a monstrosity. It is basically trying to emulate Cisco's IOS in a command to placate those that want to use Linux as their router firmware. compare something simple as enabling a network card using ifconfig vs using ip, as you can easily tell the difference. You end up 3 layers deep before you can even enter the card id you want to do anything with! When seasoned kernel devs don't want to touch a to…

But that's exactly my point!

When it's not something you want, it's to "Placate people". But if it was something you wanted, i'm sure it would be a welcome feature!

And it's not that complicated, just different.

Want a "traditional" list of interfaces? `ip addr`

Want to list running interfaces? `ip link ls up`

Want to set a device up/down? `ip link set dev {DEVICE} {up|down}`

Quick question! How do you set the MTU length in a legacy REHL system? Because with ip it's just `ip link set mtu 9000 dev eth0`!

Yeah, its new and will require some learning, but it's not inherently bad...

And talking about seasoned kernel devs, name one time that there wasn't a minority of kernel devs bitching about a new feature! Every change is going to make some people worse off.

Re: Dear Skype/Microsoft: Problems with Linux client

#455

Post by rwallace »

gaius wrote: post #331
untog wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most things worked far, far better 10 years ago than today. Apparently this is progress. Sigh. If you wanted to look up a business on your phone you'd have to call directory enquiries - did that "work better" than your smartphone? Did you prefer RealPlayer over HTML video? Was WAP better than LTE? Was Windows XP the pinnacle of OS design? Yeah, sometimes progress is a double-edged sword that outdates some things we…

I will look you in the eye and say the Amiga and ST in 1986 were better than Windows or Ubuntu in 2016.

And I'll look you right back and call bullshit. I used an Amiga in the late eighties. It was a fantastic machine for its time, certainly more advanced than the contemporary 286 PCs, but Windows 95 was markedly superior (as it should have been, a decade later), let alone modern Windows or Linux.

Yes, sometimes things get screwed up and we get understandably frustrated, but that does not license revisionist history.

Re: Dear Skype/Microsoft: Problems with Linux client

#456

Post by digi_owl »

Klathmon wrote: post #454
digi_owl wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ip command is a monstrosity. It is basically trying to emulate Cisco's IOS in a command to placate those that want to use Linux as their router firmware. compare something simple as enabling a network card using ifconfig vs using ip, as you can easily tell the difference. You end up 3 layers deep before you can even enter the card id you want to do anything with! When seasoned kernel devs don't want to touch a to…

But that's exactly my point! When it's not something you want, it's to "Placate people". But if it was something you wanted, i'm sure it would be a welcome feature! And it's not that complicated, just different. Want a "traditional" list of interfaces? `ip addr` Want to list running interfaces? `ip link ls up` Want to set a device up/down? `ip link set dev {DEVICE} {up|down}` Quick question! How do you set the MTU le…

"just". Ifconfig gets the job done, unless RH has been odd selves again...

As for devs, Torvalds didn't have much love for the ip command last time i looked into things. And a year or so back i ran into a Ts'o posting about his dislike for polkit (a close cousin of systemd).

Re: Dear Skype/Microsoft: Problems with Linux client

#457

Post by ElijahLynn »

746F7475 wrote: post #225
ElijahLynn wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than the obvious, Hangouts, which is closed source and probably just as vulnerable: https://appr.tc/ https://github.com/webrtc/apprtc

Skype is way better than hangouts first of all. Secondly webrtc requires you to coordinate, it's not like I can just call someone. Just as well we could use TeamSpeak or Ventrilo or any of the old solutions.

Yeah, definitely not the same thing. Just thought I would post it.

I much prefer Hangouts over Skype though, plus it performs very well on Ubuntu, unlike Skype.

Re: Dear Skype/Microsoft: Problems with Linux client

#459

Post by chc4 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #448
chc4 wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asynchronous messaging depends on a server to hold your messages for delivery when you go offline. That implies some company being behind the service to host that server, along with centralization and the ability of deanonymization. I'm sure there are clients that do support it, but I wouldn't want to use it. Proper Tox style would probably be to host your own bouncer server, like IRC, for that use. I don't actually…

>Asynchronous messaging depends on a server to hold your messages for delivery when you go offline. You can get 90% of the benefit by having other clients in the chat act as relays for that chat. No centralization required. You'd only need a bouncer for specific situations, like mobile mobile chat with all desktop clients shut off. >Would you be upset if I said "IRC does that" if you asked for messaging? If I asked f…

I don't actually have any idea about how group chats are implemented in Tox, but I don't see why you can't send messages to the people in the group to redistribute when people get back. It sounds like it might have history consistency issues, but maybe they already do that.

I assumed you were talking about one-on-one message relaying, which is probably what most people would care about. That can't really be solved, since one of the goals of Tox is also to prevent 3rd parties from being able to tell who you are talking to. Can't do that if you have to broadcast to users "send this message to when they get back"...

Re: Dear Skype/Microsoft: Problems with Linux client

#460

Post by khattam »

ars wrote: post #443
jvolkman wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hangouts? https://apps.google.com/products/hangouts/ And if you're looking for full conference room VC, https://www.google.com/work/chrome/devices/for-meetings/ Google uses Hangouts for all of these tasks internally, and in my experience it works well.

> Hangouts I like Hangouts, but for a bunch of reasons I want a desktop program, not a web program.

Download the Hangouts Chrome App. It is a Desktop app.
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