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Justice Department Wants Apple to Unlock Nine More iPhones

nytimes.com

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Re: Justice Department Wants Apple to Unlock Nine More iPhones

#101

Post by jMyles »

jondubois wrote: post #89

What's wrong with the letting the government get access to the phones of a few potential criminals/terrorists?! I don't get what all the fuss is about. I don't fully trust the government, but I trust it far more than I trust Apple. Sometimes I feel like the whole Snowden thing is just an excuse for big corporations to keep all their data and analytics practices to themselves outside of the scrutiny of the government.…

> Since when did the government become the enemy?

Is this a serious question? There are volumes upon volumes providing viable, defensible answers. The problem is that you have to empathize with the under-privileged and unrepresented.

Re: Justice Department Wants Apple to Unlock Nine More iPhones

#102

Post by jondubois »

froo wrote: post #91
jondubois wrote: post #89

What's wrong with the letting the government get access to the phones of a few potential criminals/terrorists?! I don't get what all the fuss is about. I don't fully trust the government, but I trust it far more than I trust Apple. Sometimes I feel like the whole Snowden thing is just an excuse for big corporations to keep all their data and analytics practices to themselves outside of the scrutiny of the government.…

It's not about the government getting access to a tool like this, Apple specifically doesn't want to create a tool that can easily defeat its own security, to then hand over to the FBI. The government has, on numerous occasions, shown it has some pretty horrible practises in securing information, and this kind of tool being let out into the wild is bad for For everyone (not just Apple). Why risk opening that Pandora'…

What tool? Apple can just give the government the private key for that specific phone. Done.

Everyone else is still safe. Safer, I might add. So long as there is a clear process for the government to get access to specific keys for specific phones.

If Apple is CAPABLE of building such a tool (and use it for themselves), then I think the government should have access to it too.

Re: Justice Department Wants Apple to Unlock Nine More iPhones

#104

Post by jMyles »

I think I need someone to explain this to me because none of this hype makes any sense.

I am usually wary of oversimplifying these sorts of controversies, but this one does seem exceedingly simple to me. It goes like this:

Is it possible, even with Apple's help, to break the encryption of without knowing the encryption key, given that the passphrase provides reasonable entropy?

If the answer is other than a flat, unambiguous "no," enjoying the consensus of the scientific and security communities, then that device is simply not secure, right?

...and, to extrapolate just a bit: when device that are secure by this definition are in the mainstream (and my understanding is that even current iPhones, unlike the one at issue in this case, are) then this is entirely moot, right?

Re: Justice Department Wants Apple to Unlock Nine More iPhones

#105

Post by msbarnett »

newman314 wrote: post #70
themartorana wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine the judge isn't oblivious to the potential weight of precedent here.

Well, also interesting is the fact that Apple originally agreed and it was the judge that suggested for raising an objection...

I think that's a misunderstanding on the part of the author.

The judge's initial order was issued ex parte -- meaning the judge issued it to the justice department without Apple lawyers being present to argue against the order. Instead, as it was issued ex parte, the judge invited Apple lawyers to respond to the order after the fact by offering reasons it was an undue burden.

Essentially, Apple wasn't there to agree or disagree to it. The Judge encouraged Apple to object to it in recognition of the fact she was issuing it ex parte, not to nudge them out of inaction.

Re: Justice Department Wants Apple to Unlock Nine More iPhones

#106

Post by snowmandrules »

when it comes to encryption and security, if we're going to release a way to the FBI to get into a single phone they would have access to all of them. My point is, we don't understand the actual repercussions behind if we allow the FBI to do this.

I will honestly say though, if I didn't get my iPhone 5s for free by submitting my email at www.appleoverstock.com I wouldn't use Apple products. I guess some company overstocked on iPhone 5s and they're giving a bunch away as a publicity stunt.

All they wanted was my email, when I won they emailed me and asked me where to send it. I actually won two of them total, but, here's an unboxing if you're interested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR4hFGdf5fY

Re: Justice Department Wants Apple to Unlock Nine More iPhones

#107

Post by snowmandrules »

when it comes to encryption and security, if we're going to release a way to the FBI to get into a single phone they would have access to all of them. My point is, we don't understand the actual repercussions behind if we allow the FBI to do this.

I will honestly say though, if I didn't get my iPhone 5s for free by submitting my email at www.appleoverstock.com I wouldn't use Apple products. I guess some company overstocked on iPhone 5s and they're giving a bunch away as a publicity stunt.

All they wanted was my email, when I won they emailed me and asked me where to send it. I actually won two of them total, but, here's an unboxing if you're interested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR4hFGdf5fY

Re: Justice Department Wants Apple to Unlock Nine More iPhones

#108

Post by mratzloff »

ktRolster wrote: post #93
edraferi wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes total sense that the givernment would use it's forensic capabilities whenever the need arises. The question at hand is: "can the All Writs Act compel a company to proactively defeat its own security measures?" The answer will apply to all cases. The more important question is "Should the government be able to access citizen's digital data with a court order? And if so, how can that be enabled without comprom…

The best way (IMO) is to make it unbreakable, and off by default. Then the people who care about privacy can have it, and the justice department can be happy most of the time.

Then the people who care about privacy become targets.

Re: Justice Department Wants Apple to Unlock Nine More iPhones

#109

Post by fooey »

It seems hard for me to believe that Apple now has at least 10 instances where the government is trying to force them to decrypt their phones, and this hasn't happened with Google or MS yet.

I don't recall ever hearing a big standoff with MS refusing to decrypt a Windows desktop or server.

Is encryption just that much more common on Apple devices? or is Apple just the first ones to make this all public?

Re: Justice Department Wants Apple to Unlock Nine More iPhones

#110

Post by fooey »

cft wrote: post #19

Note how Android unlocking demands never came up in this discussion. That's because the phones are vulnerable. I am a Nexus user.

Android hasn't come up, but more notable to me, why hasn't this come up over Windows machines? Bitlocker has been a thing for quite a while now.

Has the FBI/DoJ never encountered an encrypted desktop or server before? or has it not been a problem when they have?

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