Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Docker Datacenter – develop and manage apps at any scale

docker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 61 posts

Re: Docker Datacenter – develop and manage apps at any scale

#31

Post by conradev »

pramodliv1 wrote: post #28
conradev wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I somehow stumbled onto Kubernetes, it met all of my needs for a complete setup, and now I'm sticking to it. I really enjoy using it. Before that happened, I felt the exact same way. I still do. Docker, HashiCorp, CoreOS, Google and Amazon are all fighting for control, some building on the work of others, some developing their own solutions, some targeting different markets, some targeting the same market. It's incre…

And what's their business model going to be like? Freemium as in Nginx Plus? Pay for monitoring? Support and Consulting?

Kubernetes is an open source project sponsored by Google. Google offers hosted Kubernetes for the cost of the servers and calls it Google Container Engine. It makes their Cloud Platform more attractive. Ideally, the dependence on Google goes down over time.

CoreOS maintains and builds kube-aws[1].

[1] https://coreos.com/kubernetes/docs/latest/kubernetes-on-aws....

Re: Docker Datacenter – develop and manage apps at any scale

#32

Post by dekz »

nzoschke wrote: post #29
olalonde wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are too low level for most users and you'll eventually end up (poorly) re-inventing a PaaS if you need things like configuration, authorisation, scaling, routing, rollbacks, etc. I've found Deis ( https://github.com/deis/deis ) to hit the sweet spot between flexibility and convenience. It is built on top of docker and Kubernetes (CoreOS/fleet in v1), and lets you deploy docker containers natively and/or automat…

I'd respectfully like to submit my project, Convox, into the discussion of not reinventing a PaaS: http://convox.com/ https://github.com/convox/rack Convox is another open source PaaS, but we're building it entirely on top of AWS services like CloudFormation, ECS, ASG, etc. This means it's only suitable for teams that have 100% bought into AWS. If that's you, we make all the hard parts of operating a distributed depl…

I think Empire or Convox will be the right tool for us.

Flynn and Deis etc all seem to be writing their own schedulers and routing layer, where Convox and Empire just reuse AWS components. This to me is a huge plus, since those problems are already solved and rock solid.

But as a developer, I just want to push a docker image some where and scale it up later.

Re: Docker Datacenter – develop and manage apps at any scale

#33

Post by moderation »

bliti wrote: post #23
ArmandGrillet wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've written a report about it for a class last month and it may help you have a better understanding of Swarm/Kubernetes/Marathon: http://armand.gr/static/files/htise.pdf

Read the report and it was worth my time. Good reading for any systems person. Thanks for posting it. Suggestion: Please include a license if one was not (did not notice). Publish an HTML version.

Not quite HTML but in browser - https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Farmand.gr%2F...

Re: Docker Datacenter – develop and manage apps at any scale

#34

Post by snuxoll »

pramodliv1 wrote: post #27
olalonde wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are too low level for most users and you'll eventually end up (poorly) re-inventing a PaaS if you need things like configuration, authorisation, scaling, routing, rollbacks, etc. I've found Deis ( https://github.com/deis/deis ) to hit the sweet spot between flexibility and convenience. It is built on top of docker and Kubernetes (CoreOS/fleet in v1), and lets you deploy docker containers natively and/or automat…

Deis looks amazing! In my current project, I'm running stateful/backing services like Redis, PostgreSQL outside containers. Is that the way to go with Deis as well?

Anything involving state doesn't belong in a container. Personally, I don't think containers are worth investing the mental overhead until the security story is resolved - but if you insist on using them don't use them to store your data.

Re: Docker Datacenter – develop and manage apps at any scale

#35

Post by lobster_johnson »

snuxoll wrote: post #34
pramodliv1 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deis looks amazing! In my current project, I'm running stateful/backing services like Redis, PostgreSQL outside containers. Is that the way to go with Deis as well?

Anything involving state doesn't belong in a container. Personally, I don't think containers are worth investing the mental overhead until the security story is resolved - but if you insist on using them don't use them to store your data.

There's absolutely nothing special about containers and state. A container is just a namespaced process tree. What resources (CPU, memory, network, disk) is has access to is up to you; there's nothing in the Docker design that means state needs to die just because the process dies. All the major container technologies (Kubernetes, Marathon, Amazon's ECS etc.) support data persistence via mounted volumes.

Docker's security concerns are mostly about multitenant systems where you're hosting other people's containers. If all your own apps are your own, then Docker is certainly a step up, securitywise, from running an app as a process running as its own Unix user. You just shouldn't assume that a container is perfectly isolated.

Re: Docker Datacenter – develop and manage apps at any scale

#36

Post by roflc0ptic »

enobrev wrote: post #21
sciurus wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice writeup. You might consider creating an HTML version for people who are cautious about opening PDFs.

I generally Prefer HTML over PDF, especially on mobile, but I'm genuinely curious as to why someone would be cautious about opening PDFs.

Just a little bit of meta discussion: HN is generally good about this, but at the time I'm writing this, this comment is greyed out. It's a reasonable question that I might have asked 5 years ago. They're not bringing down the level of discourse, they just didn't know something that is common knowledge. I feel like software people, if anyone, should be sympathetic towards people with holes in their knowledge, because we are confronted daily with how large the gulf is between our intellects and memories, and the extant complexity of the world we live in.

Re: Docker Datacenter – develop and manage apps at any scale

#37

Post by snuxoll »

lobster_johnson wrote: post #35
snuxoll wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything involving state doesn't belong in a container. Personally, I don't think containers are worth investing the mental overhead until the security story is resolved - but if you insist on using them don't use them to store your data.

There's absolutely nothing special about containers and state. A container is just a namespaced process tree. What resources (CPU, memory, network, disk) is has access to is up to you; there's nothing in the Docker design that means state needs to die just because the process dies. All the major container technologies (Kubernetes, Marathon, Amazon's ECS etc.) support data persistence via mounted volumes. Docker's sec…

I'm not talking about isolation WRT to containers and security, keeping them up-to-date is the bigger issue. Docker doesn't have a good solution to this that doesn't involve constantly rebuilding your base containers and any child containers that depend on it.

Re: Docker Datacenter – develop and manage apps at any scale

#38

Post by bliti »

moderation wrote: post #33
bliti wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the report and it was worth my time. Good reading for any systems person. Thanks for posting it. Suggestion: Please include a license if one was not (did not notice). Publish an HTML version.

Not quite HTML but in browser - https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Farmand.gr%2F...

Very nice option. Thank you for posting it. :)

Re: Docker Datacenter – develop and manage apps at any scale

#39

Post by lobster_johnson »

snuxoll wrote: post #37
lobster_johnson wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's absolutely nothing special about containers and state. A container is just a namespaced process tree. What resources (CPU, memory, network, disk) is has access to is up to you; there's nothing in the Docker design that means state needs to die just because the process dies. All the major container technologies (Kubernetes, Marathon, Amazon's ECS etc.) support data persistence via mounted volumes. Docker's sec…

I'm not talking about isolation WRT to containers and security, keeping them up-to-date is the bigger issue. Docker doesn't have a good solution to this that doesn't involve constantly rebuilding your base containers and any child containers that depend on it.

That's not a "security story" I've heard before. Surely containers make this much _easier_ than traditional VMs, because containers are designed (or should be designed) to completely expendable. To do an "OS upgrade", just rebuild and redeploy.

If you're using a system that has rolling, verified, graceful restarts built in (e.g., Marathon, and I believe Kubernetes does, too), you'll easily avoid any downtime, which is harder to accomplish with classical VMs.

With a classical system (VM or otherwise) you'll still have to restart your apps whenever some library (glibc, ImageMagick or whatever) is patched. Docker doesn't change that. It does potentially minimize the surface area.

Re: Docker Datacenter – develop and manage apps at any scale

#40

Post by api »

conradev wrote: post #14
ahallock wrote: post #3

Between this, Kubernetes, Marathon, Amazon's container service, the tooling is overwhelming. I really have no clue how it all fits together and what a complete setup looks like (dev -> testing/CI -> prod). I'm using Docker for development, but that's where it ends for me.

I somehow stumbled onto Kubernetes, it met all of my needs for a complete setup, and now I'm sticking to it. I really enjoy using it. Before that happened, I felt the exact same way. I still do. Docker, HashiCorp, CoreOS, Google and Amazon are all fighting for control, some building on the work of others, some developing their own solutions, some targeting different markets, some targeting the same market. It's incre…

It's the cloud equivalent of the PC world in the 80s: Commodore (64 and Amiga), Apple, TRS-80, IBM, TI, and dozens of smaller players all competing for platform dominance.
Post reply on HN