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German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

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Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#131

Post by nickik »

edko wrote: post #100
scurvy wrote: post #86

Good thing the EU is now forcing US companies to keep EU customer data in the EU. You know, to prevent spying on people's data.

If a government is going to spy on me, I'd rather it be my own.

I highly disagree. That you even say something like this, shows how privliged of a state you must live in.

Beeing spyed on by the same institution that has the monopoly on violence. If that institution stops liking me, I have a huge problem, a potentially life threatning situation. If the state of Iran has a simular problem with me, I don't care because they dont have a police force and an army in central europe.

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#132

Post by alexandercrohde »

I think this really illustrates one of the biggest concerns with concentrating software power in the executive: what if a totalitarian seizes control? How much damage can they accomplish?

Last time, less than 100 years ago, 2/3rds of the Jewish race was eliminated. How much damage could be done to a targeted minority in the information age? Governments by my account, have killed (6 million) an order of magnitude more innocents than terrorists ever have, and short of nukes, ever will.

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#133

Post by wooter »

mihaifm wrote: post #42

Are our operating systems so vulnerable? Even if we're talking about governments, how is it still possible for someone to 'break' into my computer without me doing anything stupid. How do they plan to install Trojans into my computer?

in the US at least, Snowden revealed they were even intercepting newly purchased hardware while in-transit and introducing corrupt hardware.

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#134

Post by marvin »

alexandercrohde wrote: post #132

I think this really illustrates one of the biggest concerns with concentrating software power in the executive: what if a totalitarian seizes control? How much damage can they accomplish? Last time, less than 100 years ago, 2/3rds of the Jewish race was eliminated. How much damage could be done to a targeted minority in the information age? Governments by my account, have killed (6 million) an order of magnitude more…

If you're referring to the Holocaust, the state-orchestrated mass-murder part of it was actually ten million dead, not six.

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#135

Post by choosername »

brakmic wrote: post #15

I doubt they have capable programmers working for them. A few years ago the Chaos Computer Club discovered the 'predecessor' version of this State-Trojan ("Bundestrojaner"). This version was a perfect example what happens when you _want_ to have such a software but your programmers _suck_ at even most basic things (like establishing a working traffic-encryption). Here's the video (in German): https://youtu.be/zAV-hTp…

This is so delusional and easily refuted.

It doesn't matter that it isn't perfect as long as it works. Let's assume, this one example of finfisher's (IIRC) tools was used on a lesser infraction, I don' remember specifics. Why burn a good traffic encryption that the CCC would go to analyze? The use oftools that will cost more if a simpler, even faulty tool will still beat the target, is also debateable. And why are there capable programmers at the NSA, but none could be in the BSI or BND. We even know they use tools from the NSA, so where's the difference?

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#136

Post by edko »

nickik wrote: post #131
edko wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a government is going to spy on me, I'd rather it be my own.

I highly disagree. That you even say something like this, shows how privliged of a state you must live in. Beeing spyed on by the same institution that has the monopoly on violence. If that institution stops liking me, I have a huge problem, a potentially life threatning situation. If the state of Iran has a simular problem with me, I don't care because they dont have a police force and an army in central europe.

Yes, it is said from my subjective point of view. I am not advocating for any state to spy on me, though.

It is interesting that you mentioned the state of Iran. They are, for example, responsible for the assassination of 85 innocent Argentinian civilians in '94, and I am sure of many other crimes around the world too. They did not have a police force or an army in Argentina. So, I think one should care.

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#137

Post by johnsea »

Xylakant wrote: post #65
ptaipale wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And not just a few years ago, this is an ongoing issue. For instance, a government minister in Hessen tries to ensure that this politician from AfD (in opposition to the ruling CDU/SDP coalition) should not be able to work as a teacher. http://www.focus.de/politik/videos/er-hatte-sport-und-geschi...

You're conveniently letting out the part about the racist remarks which are the actual cause. I'm all in favor of not letting racists teach children.

I'm against censoring. What I read here: >>hatte ... von einem "lebensbejahenden afrikanischen Ausbreitungstyp" gesprochen - was von Experten als rassistisch gewertet worden war[1] http://www.focus.de/politik/videos/er-hatte-sport-und-geschi...

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#138

Post by Barrin92 »

edko wrote: post #100
scurvy wrote: post #86

Good thing the EU is now forcing US companies to keep EU customer data in the EU. You know, to prevent spying on people's data.

If a government is going to spy on me, I'd rather it be my own.

That really doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't care if foreign governments spy on me, they can't enforce law here, my own government very much can.

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#139

Post by Lawtonfogle »

Xylakant wrote: post #65
ptaipale wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And not just a few years ago, this is an ongoing issue. For instance, a government minister in Hessen tries to ensure that this politician from AfD (in opposition to the ruling CDU/SDP coalition) should not be able to work as a teacher. http://www.focus.de/politik/videos/er-hatte-sport-und-geschi...

You're conveniently letting out the part about the racist remarks which are the actual cause. I'm all in favor of not letting racists teach children.

Nice term... who gets to define what counts. I remember a recent UK failing to protect children incident that shows the term itself is worthless to be used as any part of official government law.
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