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Why I don't want stuff

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Re: Why I don't want stuff

#101

Post by mbrock »

scott_s wrote: post #90
mbrock wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, it's possible to "do things" that don't require a lot of extra things. Writing, walking, meditating, listening to music, reading, making out, drinking tea, running, dancing, making electronic music, math, logic, praying, thinking, debating, making movies with your smartphone (one such movie recently won a documentary award), origami, chess, baking, cooking, lifting at a gym, hackerspace participation, movi…

Sure. But there's also a lot of stuff that does require having specialized things. (And a lot of your list actually does.) 0xffff2's point is that stuff is sometimes an enabler, not just a burden. Personally, I don't have much stuff, and I like it that way. But taken to its extreme, and I wouldn't be able to do my favorite things.

Sure. I'm just trying to stimulate the imagination of someone who said they can't imagine a fulfilling life devoid of specialized items.

Re: Why I don't want stuff

#102

Post by 0xffff2 »

mbrock wrote: post #83
0xffff2 wrote: post #70

I can appreciate the sentiment, but I actually like doing things. Don't get me wrong, I probably spend much more time than most in front of my computer, but even so. I'm a photographer -> Two bags full of camera gear, tripod... I'm a hiker/backpacker -> Backpack, tent, sleeping bag, hiking boots... I'm a cyclist -> Bike, helmet, gloves, pump... I'm a computer engineer -> Solder station, wire cutters, crimping tools..…

Of course, it's possible to "do things" that don't require a lot of extra things. Writing, walking, meditating, listening to music, reading, making out, drinking tea, running, dancing, making electronic music, math, logic, praying, thinking, debating, making movies with your smartphone (one such movie recently won a documentary award), origami, chess, baking, cooking, lifting at a gym, hackerspace participation, movi…

To take just two examples to add to my list above:

Tea drinker -> Three different tea sets, which get used variously depending on what kind of tea I am drinking.

baker -> An entire kitchen full of tools.

Perhaps I'm taking the article too literally, but if he really only has the things that came with his apartment, so clothes, a laptop, and headphones, he really can't do most of the things on your list, at least not at any kind of level beyond the most casual.

Re: Why I don't want stuff

#103

Post by grownseed »

This is something I've written about before, at least indirectly, but I believe not owning much at all has deep therapeutical value. Until recently, I was in a very similar situation to the author, I sold and gave away nearly all of my stuff (an apartment full of it) years ago, to only be left with a backpack and a suitcase worth of stuff. It was extremely liberating, I didn't have things to look at making me wonder whether I used them enough or unfolding years of history associated to it that would burden my mind. By the time I'd gotten accustomed to this lifestyle, the only thing that mattered to me was my passport, and only because I wanted to keep travelling. The rest of my stuff could have been stolen and I would have shrugged at it. After a while, that made me realize that the problem wasn't so much with the belongings themselves, but rather the attachment we develop towards things, sometimes to unhealthy degrees.

My finger in the air theory is, we teach kids to value the things they have, because as adults we work to pay for most things and we know what it's like to not be able to afford something, particularly when it comes to providing for your close ones. Children's concept of money is rather simplistic (or even non-existent), so I believe the value is more emotionally based (there have been studies showing that children ascribe human emotions to inanimate things, among other things). I think this emotional bond with objects remains, to a certain extent, as we grow older, which would also emphasize the idea of owning as a social signal (i.e. "that person has many [friends|things]"). The idea that we should be thankful for the things we have, not the things we might get, is great in theory, but explaining to a small child that they should be thankful for their very life is a bit brutal to say the least.

Not completely sure where I'm going with this. I suppose attachment is something for which you have to both program and de-program yourself to appreciate without being dependent. But even that is made more complicated as soon as another person enters the picture (partner, child, etc.). The way I try to make it work is to offer people tangible signs of affection, such as cooking a nice meal, playing some music, help out with a problem and so on, things that can be valued in and of themselves, but that carry little or no baggage. Likewise, I tend to ask close ones to give me something from themselves, rather than buy things. As the giver, you get to do something you're passionate about and share it with the person you care for. As the receiver, you value the sentiment more profoundly and you learn a little bit more about the other. Anywho, it works for me, YMMV :)

Re: Why I don't want stuff

#104

Post by BorgHunter »

vram22 wrote: post #74
austinjp wrote: post #2

I don't live quite like this, but I feel similarly about gifts: I far prefer them to be practical rather than decorative or frivolous. I've realised that people can get slightly upset when I explain it to them. They want to buy me something fun, something I'll "enjoy". Chances are I won't, although I do of course appreciate the sentiment. Equally, I find it more satisfying to buy a "useful" gift for others. And of co…

Does anyone use Amazon wish lists to solve this sort of issue? Do they even exist? Asking both out of interest of this thread's topic, and because some time back I consulted to a dot com startup where the product was to be a gift related site. Startup was executed very poorly so I left (and it shut down soon after). But the idea may have had merit.

My family all has Amazon wish lists for exactly this issue, in fact. Before Amazon was popular, we all posted wish lists on a closet door in my grandmother's house, and we either went in the den to look at them or called her and asked her what was on the lists.

My girlfriend's family doesn't do any of this stuff, and so I've had to do "educated guess"-type gifting, which I'm usually somewhat decent at. They tend to get me clothes, which is fine, everyone's gotta wear clothes.

Re: Why I don't want stuff

#105

Post by marincounty »

RealityVoid wrote: post #3
austinjp wrote: post #2

I don't live quite like this, but I feel similarly about gifts: I far prefer them to be practical rather than decorative or frivolous. I've realised that people can get slightly upset when I explain it to them. They want to buy me something fun, something I'll "enjoy". Chances are I won't, although I do of course appreciate the sentiment. Equally, I find it more satisfying to buy a "useful" gift for others. And of co…

While I like the ideea of this lifestyle, I can't do it. I simply love my tools too much. And I have a lot of them. And lopts of parts. At a first look, some might looks superfulous, for example, I have this wierd star-shaped screwdriver. Most of the time, I don't use it, but boy, when I use it, does it save me a lot of time.

I want to live like this too, but I need tools. I need automotive tools. I can't afford mechanics bills, nor trust the workmanship. I need tools to repair watches--which turned into a side business. Plus I have home contractor tools. It's the tools that has me waited down.

I have a library I can thin down, but it's hard. It's 99 percent refrence. And the first editions--well I like them more than some people. I wouldn't have ever started the library, but didn't think books would be so digitally available.

I have a couple of vaccumes I could get rid of, but who would cut my hair? Flobee--and they do work, if you have a little bit of coordination. I hated going to the hair salon.

That said--if I had to go leave real quick, I would take all my watches, and jeweler's tools. I could fit everything in three legal sized boxes. I would take another three legal sized boxes of books. I would leave my tool chest, and put all tools in six legal sized boxes.

I might need to move quick in the future. I'm not sure where I will go. I won't pay Bay Area rents again. I go out at night, and the people I would interact with moved away. The Bay Area is just not that fun anymore. Never thought I would say that, but then again couldn't imagine living in the Midwest.

I am greatful I never had a kid. Never thought I would say that. I like them, but I never thought life in America would be this ruthless.

I gave away my inheritance, from a pretty brutal father. At the time, I didn't think I would ever need it, nor wanted anything from the man. I gave it all to a family member. I should have kept some of it. It was a lot too.

On the positive side, when I'm dying, I won't need to make to many amends. I haven't screwed over anyone--I can recall. My exes don't want to keep in touch. One told me, "You can be really hurtful. You have hurt my feelings more than any other person." She's now seeing women. I knew I was kinda a handful, but I didn't intentionally want to hurt her feelings. I just couldn't continually agree.

Got off track.

Re: Why I don't want stuff

#106

Post by danans »

nostromo wrote: post #91
0xffff2 wrote: post #70

I can appreciate the sentiment, but I actually like doing things. Don't get me wrong, I probably spend much more time than most in front of my computer, but even so. I'm a photographer -> Two bags full of camera gear, tripod... I'm a hiker/backpacker -> Backpack, tent, sleeping bag, hiking boots... I'm a cyclist -> Bike, helmet, gloves, pump... I'm a computer engineer -> Solder station, wire cutters, crimping tools..…

I wish there was a startup in this space. I have so much house maintenance stuff. For example, I only really need a ladder once a year. But I keep it around forever because when you need a ladder, you need a ladder . I would love to not have to store and maintain all this stuff and to just request it on demand. Can someone solve that for me? I'm embarrassed to admit that sometimes it's easier for me to just buy a new…

In my neighborhood we all borrow each others gear, whether it's home improvement stuff, or occasionally used outdoor sports gear. Any startup in this space would have to establish the "trust" feature of a sharing community, which is a feature that a friendly neighborhood has built-in.

You might be on to something if you find an easy way for people to publish their inventory of stuff to a trusted group of neighbors, maybe with a smartphone app to take pics of the gear? That way you leverage the trust that already exists, and just make the publishing and discovery process easier.

We use Nextdoor and our street's email mailing list for this all the time.

EDIT: Nextdoor and email lists only provide the in-group communication solution, not the inventory solution. It would be interesting to see an inventory solution that worked with a variety of communication services.

Re: Why I don't want stuff

#107

Post by simonebrunozzi »

nostromo wrote: post #91
0xffff2 wrote: post #70

I can appreciate the sentiment, but I actually like doing things. Don't get me wrong, I probably spend much more time than most in front of my computer, but even so. I'm a photographer -> Two bags full of camera gear, tripod... I'm a hiker/backpacker -> Backpack, tent, sleeping bag, hiking boots... I'm a cyclist -> Bike, helmet, gloves, pump... I'm a computer engineer -> Solder station, wire cutters, crimping tools..…

I wish there was a startup in this space. I have so much house maintenance stuff. For example, I only really need a ladder once a year. But I keep it around forever because when you need a ladder, you need a ladder . I would love to not have to store and maintain all this stuff and to just request it on demand. Can someone solve that for me? I'm embarrassed to admit that sometimes it's easier for me to just buy a new…

I am mingling with a startup idea (that I can't really build now, but perhaps in 4-5 years, for various reasons) that would solve your problem; however, I concluded that the only way to solve it is to live in a crowded area (like in a condo) and have a dedicated storage area for this.

I can't think of any other way to efficiently and cost-effectively handle this.

Re: Why I don't want stuff

#108

Post by marincounty »

nostromo wrote: post #91
0xffff2 wrote: post #70

I can appreciate the sentiment, but I actually like doing things. Don't get me wrong, I probably spend much more time than most in front of my computer, but even so. I'm a photographer -> Two bags full of camera gear, tripod... I'm a hiker/backpacker -> Backpack, tent, sleeping bag, hiking boots... I'm a cyclist -> Bike, helmet, gloves, pump... I'm a computer engineer -> Solder station, wire cutters, crimping tools..…

I wish there was a startup in this space. I have so much house maintenance stuff. For example, I only really need a ladder once a year. But I keep it around forever because when you need a ladder, you need a ladder . I would love to not have to store and maintain all this stuff and to just request it on demand. Can someone solve that for me? I'm embarrassed to admit that sometimes it's easier for me to just buy a new…

There's a place in Berkeley CA. I forget the name, but they loan out stuff like tools, and I believe camping/sporting stuff. They run it like a library. I always thought it was a great service.

Re: Why I don't want stuff

#109

Post by Pxtl »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #98
nostromo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there was a startup in this space. I have so much house maintenance stuff. For example, I only really need a ladder once a year. But I keep it around forever because when you need a ladder, you need a ladder . I would love to not have to store and maintain all this stuff and to just request it on demand. Can someone solve that for me? I'm embarrassed to admit that sometimes it's easier for me to just buy a new…

Yeah I tried renting stuff like camping gear, instead of owning it. The University athletic services was glad to rent me old-fashioned heavy tents and so on. For about $50 per campout. It was about the same price to buy good stuff, and use it a dozen times! I'm suspicious that an own-in-common club or organization would end up asking me to pay too much for old stuff. It'd be hard to avoid - they'd want to depreciate…

I think you're underestimating the cost of good equipment. Yes, a bunch of fragile Coleman gear at Walmart will all fit into that budget, but it would be quickly destroyed if put through the "government mule" life cycle of rented goods.

Re: Why I don't want stuff

#110

Post by vox_mollis »

nostromo wrote: post #91
0xffff2 wrote: post #70

I can appreciate the sentiment, but I actually like doing things. Don't get me wrong, I probably spend much more time than most in front of my computer, but even so. I'm a photographer -> Two bags full of camera gear, tripod... I'm a hiker/backpacker -> Backpack, tent, sleeping bag, hiking boots... I'm a cyclist -> Bike, helmet, gloves, pump... I'm a computer engineer -> Solder station, wire cutters, crimping tools..…

I wish there was a startup in this space. I have so much house maintenance stuff. For example, I only really need a ladder once a year. But I keep it around forever because when you need a ladder, you need a ladder . I would love to not have to store and maintain all this stuff and to just request it on demand. Can someone solve that for me? I'm embarrassed to admit that sometimes it's easier for me to just buy a new…

Prior to our modern atomized ways of living as individuals instead of parts of a community, most people solved this problem by getting to know one's neighbors and community members and borrowing amongst each other.
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