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AI generated music to improve focus, relaxation and sleep

brain.fm

281–290 of 307 posts

Re: AI generated music to improve focus, relaxation and sleep

#281
post #211

Is there any real science to this? Can someone provide legitimate references? I tried this last time it was on HN. It felt like a hoax; I was less focused because the sounds were less calming than the air conditioning in the office, and because the trial repeats after about 10 minutes.

My first thought was Lumosity [1]. I'd love for these claims to be real, but I'm just not willing to believe claims like these until I see a significant result in a randomized controlled trial. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumosity#Effectiveness

We did a randomized controlled trial :)

https://www.brain.fm/pdfs/EEGFocusAnalysis.pdf

It's pending publication, but it'll get there. And now we have enough info to start a double blind. Sleep one is also pending publication.

The HRV (stress/anxiety) trial is already published, and was completely independent. We didn't even know about it until it was published. There's more in the science section too.

I remember when that Lumosity BS came out. We'd been around for 4 years already at that point. Now that it's finally us taking off, we're pouring everything into the science. We're going to do this right.

(oh, sorry, I just realized I'd already replied to you above. I'll leave this here though, for anyone who's interested)

Re: AI generated music to improve focus, relaxation and sleep

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great list! Listening to "Gas", I thought you might also like Fennesz - Venice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWAghDS6s4Q&list=PLKtI6DyKnY... And while we're at it, just a few of my favorites: Greg Haines - Slumber Tides: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmMDkZhl_R4 Nest - Retold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r69TiaIE4uo&list=PLaAArUShcY... Murcof - (Ulysses, Martes, Remembranza - all great): https://www.youtube.…

Best list I found in this thread yet. Am I the only one that likes to work to (mostly) instrumental sludge metal and post-rock? ISIS — Celestial (2000) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8XN-3YZL5Y

That's probably one of my key focus bands... though I'd probably list:

ISIS — Oceanic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2C8Z1Keluk

ISIS — Panopticon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA2AJIiw0p8

ISIS — In The Absence of Truth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atCKkDusJkc

The latter being a more accessible, earthlier sound (with no growling); yet the former two being the greater works.

Additionally, some classic post-rock masterpieces by GY!BE:

Godspeed You! Black Emperor — F# A# ∞ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy4IsC5eb7o

Godspeed You! Black Emperor — Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZwQeZh6rP0

As a track is named, the former is bleak, uncertain, beautiful; both melancholic and uplifting with despairing wails and wavering cries of tears and joy. The second is the more known GY!BE album, which is just as good.

Nowadays, I just listen to whatever strikes my mood (I can tune most stuff out), but the ones I listed above were particularly good for focusing during essay writing.

Re: AI generated music to improve focus, relaxation and sleep

#284
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Could you explain, technically, how and by what you think the brain waves are being manipulated? Thanks

Hey, great question, though I'm not sure if you want the audio or neurological explanation, or both :) I'm also not sure how technical you want or how much you know already, so apologies if I'm too technical, and apologies if I'm not technical enough. I'll just try to start from the beginning and lay everything out from there, as briefly as I can. Tragically, however, I was born without brevity. 1) Brain.fm: The Brai…

Hi Adam, Thanks for the response.

I know it was a vague question of mine, but I didn't realise the detail you were prepared to give it. So thanks, again. I'm no expert (my background is more musical), but I do understand most these concepts and perspectives involved. To articulate better my question: Technically how are you manipulating audio and what effect does that have on brainwaves. Your answer, understandably, was more contextual than specific. so let me specify the parts I am hoping to understand.

How do you manipulate audio?

I am in right in understanding your disguising a basic and specific pulse throughout the music. or... are you modulating it rhythmically (very slightly) out of phase with the rest of the music. If you are only applying it to certain frequencies then it seems you may be creating binaural beat like tendencies in the ears abillity to create implicit tones (Hidden frequencies, not physically present).

What effect does this have on brainwaves?

You stated in general you are matching rhythms to that of the brain. Can you expound this? What theory of Rhythmic psychological organissation are you purporting/ascribing to? how is your audio intereacting with this model? What is the effect of your audio on the model?

I understand you may have a whole toolbox of tricks going on here and that you don't want to give away your product entirely. Feel free to gloss over introducing technical terms, though its helpful for all reading, I think most people here can quickly come upto speed on stuff. I'm not asking you for the secrets of your product - just more specifics on how it relates to the research you are citing.

Thanks for the article link, it looks very interesting reading.

A couple of reflections on your product: I personally don't like the music and therefore can't listen to it. It doesn't sound human to me and therefore my brain rejects it. Have you heard of the theory of "participatory discrepancy" (Keil C. and Feld, S. (1994). It highlights the value of discrepencies (randomness) rhythm for creating groove. I think cognitivly there is a similar principle at play (perhaps you know it, I can't find reference to it right now - will dig it out if this area interests you). I also feel, on the website, that the lack of actual specifics twinned with a large scholary general body of work, is ultimately devaluing your product. Though that may, quite rightly, be your choice in promotion, to engage me a couple of pages about whats actually going, twinned with a couple of very specifc to your model studies, would make me give this product real integrity and longterm value. For example Stober's powerpoint on the MIIR EEG dataset here (http://bib.sebastianstober.de/2015-01-31_NEMISIG.pdf - illustrates complex concepts that your describing, very simply. Incidentally I think lifetime subcriptions after a long trial period would probably have the most chance of getting my support.

Re: AI generated music to improve focus, relaxation and sleep

#285

I still can't find anything better to program to than Nujabes. I'm going to give this a genuine shot, but Jun Seba really left his mark on me for life. I find myself listening to his albums and songs at least twice a day. I think it's because of his repetitive beats, smooth strings and soft instrumentation. There's a reason there are 10 hour 'homework' edits on youtube for almost all of his songs. Counting Stars: htt…

I guess I'm pretty weird for programming to tribal punk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn9Li6Sh9BU

I used to do it to heavy metal. I joke it keeps the little nagging hyperactive creature inside my brain entertained so it doesn't mess up the rest that's trying to work.

I immediately imagined an Inside Out-like scene where one feeling is trying to concentrate and an army of other feelings plays tuba, rides bikes, cooks, sings, asks about opinions...

Re: AI generated music to improve focus, relaxation and sleep

#286

Adam from Brain.fm here! Happy to answer any questions. :) I've been doing this stuff for a while and I love talking about it. I've contacted Giovanni, our lead neuroscientist, so hopefully he'll be able to get on soon as well. I'm a regular of HN and it's wild to see something of mine up here.

I'm sorry if I sound lay here, but I have probably the most basic question of all:

how do I know if it is actually working? How should I feel while (or after), say, I listen to the Intense Focus loop?

I actually tried a both Quick Relax and Intense Focus (both with earphones). For the latter I even did the registration and survey. I put the Quick Relax 15 minutes track, on first, closed my eyes and laid my head on my arm. Ten minutes in I wasn't feeling more relaxed either physically or mentally. So I tried again, but the track that came out this time felt a little unpleasant so I gave up.

So I went to try the Intense Focus thing, and I have been listening to it while reading all the comments to this reply and some others below this one. Once again I don't really feel more focused or anything. I'm sorry to say this but I even find some tracks unpleasant to listen to.

Am I doing something wrong? Are there optimal conditions I should put myself in for this to work? Does the fact that there was low noise (TV in the other room) around me might have prevented the Quick Relax from working?

I don't mean to sound to negative here, mine are just genuine questions from someone who would really like something like this to work.

Re: AI generated music to improve focus, relaxation and sleep

#287
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Nujabes too. I also highly recommend Boards of Canada: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0fSIHcxJhECMV53Llj23...

Checkout "Christ." as well. 3rd early BoC member, he's sort of struggling but his music is amazing. He's one of the only artists to ever get an encore from John Peel. He's reissuing one of his best albums on vinyl and is only 64 preorders away from fulfilling the goal - https://www.diggersfactory.com/project/203/christ-curio-volu... 1) Christ. - Pylonesque - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXipXsYg1_U 2) Christ. - Gl…

I agree, definitely worth checking out. Excellent musician.

I find the following tracks are great to code to as well:

https://christmusic.bandcamp.com/track/sunart

https://christmusic.bandcamp.com/track/moxley-moy-4-track-or...

(The album the second one is on, overall, is on quite regular office rotation here. Even when it's noisy, it's quite heavily beat driven which at least personally keeps me in the zone.)

Re: AI generated music to improve focus, relaxation and sleep

#288
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#credentials

Well, yes?! Your implied complaint was that their work is not very scientific. The team having PhDs in neuroscience is irrelevant/unsatisfactory/bad? What would you like to see? Would it have seemed more scientific to you if they'd done it at a hackathon?

Obviously irrelevant, which renders moot the other two questions that you asked me.

My point is that the work itself is what makes something scientific, not the workers' CVs (note the careful wording here; calling them researchers is another appeal to credentialism).

With that in mind, what would I like to see? You should be able to answer that one yourself now.

Re: AI generated music to improve focus, relaxation and sleep

#289
My name is Giovanni Santostasi. I have a PhD in Physics and I work in the field of neuroscience of sleep at Northwestern University, in particular I'm interested in slow wave sleep. I'm also the leading neuroscientist at brain.fm. Slow wave sleep is the deepest stage of sleep and it is fundamental for learning and cognition (and several other physiological functions like getting rid of toxins in the brain, metabolism and hormonal regulation). Slow wave sleep is one of the most regular rhythmic brain state. It is easy to recognize using an EEG system because it produces very regular bursts of large amplitude and relatively slow oscillations, called slow waves (with a frequency of about 1 Hz). This is one of the most active fields in neuroscience right now. Many experiments in labs around the world have shown that the amplitude of these oscillations are strongly correlated with learning activity during the day. Also performance on cognitive tasks in particular related to memory are strongly correlated with the amplitude of the slow waves. Scientists tried to understand if slow waves were just an epiphenomenon, i.e. if they were the indicators of a fundamental physiological principle or they had a causative role, i.e. if by generating slow waves the brain caused physiological changes that helped the process of memory consolidation in the brain (making memory long stable over long term). Therefore in the last 10 years scientists tried to modify the slow waves using external stimulation. The used initially transcranial direct current stimulation tDCs and obtain amazing results. By creating currents that oscillated at a frequency close to the typical frequency of slow waves (about 1 Hz) they were able to enhance the amplitude of the waves. What was even more amazing that the enhancement in amplitude changed the memory performance of the study participants in a standard memory tests relatively to a sham condition. The change were not just statistical significant but quite dramatic (they enhanced by 20-30 percent the natural benefit in memory due to sleep alone). The results were published in Nature, the most prestigious science journal. In our lab we reproduced and in fact improved these results using acoustic stimulation (using short burst of pink noise synchronized with the brain oscillations during sleep). This and many other experiments repeated in many labs around the world show clearly that the relationship between mental states and brain rhythms is bidirectional, brain states create brain rhythms, but brain rhythms bring the brain to particular brain states. The field of brain stimulation is relatively new in neuroscience as a very active, promising and in fact revolutionary area of research. Sleep is just one area but people are exploring using rhythmic brain stimulation how to increase attention, information processing, improve mood and cognition in older people, helping with ADD. It is unfortunate that in the last decades the idea of using brain waves to enhance brain function has been appropriated by charlatans and new agers. But right now brain rhythms are making a huge come back as a legit scientific study that is bringing break throughs almost on a daily basis. At brain.fm we are simply using the knowledge of this new field of science to improve people well being. We are moving the knowledge from the lab to people daily life. We are not claiming to have a magical tool to enhance focus, attention, sleep. We are doing what good scientists do. Experimenting, trying different things and using the scientific method and an evidence based approach to determine what works and what doesn't work. I believe we are doing much better than most companies in the industry of neuroscience commercial applications because we are focused on testing with scientific means our technology and prove ourselves wrong before we make any claim. When we do is because we see noticeable effects and reasonable repeatability of our findings. I notice several criticisms about the small sample size of our studies. I have to clarify that this is very typical size for pilot experiments that are trying to test new approaches in brain stimulation and other physiological studies in general. The Nature paper I mentioned for tDCs and slow wave sleep had about 17 subjects. Also the p=0.05 as statistical threshold is something that is used all the time in the biomed field. Being a physicist it took me sometime to get adjusted to such small significance (in comparison with what we consider significant in physics) but it is understandable given the complexity of living systems and the great variability in human physiology. And how many companies you know in this industry that can back up their claims with any study at all? Or are interested in testing, experimenting, learning from their mistakes and improve their products continuously from what is learned? We accept your criticism as an input for pushing ourselves in doing better and creating even better products. Be part of this experiment in human enhancement and let us know what you think. Thank you, Giovanni

Re: AI generated music to improve focus, relaxation and sleep

#290
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great list! - Bookmarked! I recently found out Entheogenic[1] and so far loving the music. [1] : http://www.entheogenic.net/index.html

If you like Entheogenic, I highly recommend OTT - https://ottsonic.bandcamp.com/

Just spent past few hours listening to OTT, thanks for recommending and +1 to them!
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