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WikiLeaks reveals the NSA spied on Berlusconi and his closest advisors

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Re: WikiLeaks reveals the NSA spied on Berlusconi and his closest advisors

#41

Post by EdHominem »

chatmasta wrote: post #14

Julian Assange has some "big balls." Either he really likes pushing his luck, or his end game is way bigger than anyone realizes. He was just starting to curry the favor of the general public. He was the subject of a prominent biopic, he received a positive resolution from the UN. He has a lot of supporters, but they're not all fully sold on his philosophy. Many of his supporters might consider this leak not in the s…

Forgive everyone if they fail to believe that. The NSA has been shown to be lying with everything else it has said so likely this is somehow a lie as well.

No, it's far better to keep an eye peeled on everything they do now that they've been shown to be trying to slip their mandate.

> Therefore one has to wonder what Assange's motivation is behind this leak [...]

No, not really. His motives are really clear. Force the liars out into the light of day. The US Army was actively collaborating to frame innocent Iraqis with terrorism charges - something which directly contributed to ISIS, and they hid evidence and lied to the press and US investigators about it.

Honestly, your motives are more in question. Assange pointed out that our government was lying to us and you heap blame on him.

Re: WikiLeaks reveals the NSA spied on Berlusconi and his closest advisors

#42

Post by EdHominem »

chatmasta wrote: post #26
qrendel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering they recently chose to completely ignore the UN opinion on his "arbitrary detention," on top of everything else in the past - false rape accusations, ignoring his asylum status - I don't see what more he really has to lose. What are the odds he possibly gets out of this without torture, assassination, or life in prison? They've done everything possible to turn him into an actual enemy, rather than the edi…

Exactly. He has nothing to lose, so he is doing this now. For himself. The timing is obviously coordinated around his personal motives, not those of wikileaks the organization. In fact it's unclear how much of an "organization" really even exists outside of Assange. So perhaps his personal strategy remains inextricably linked to the wikileaks strategy, precisely because Julian Assange and wikileaks are effectively a…

I'm glad to see you're so concerned. Truly, you are the only one watching out for the Wikileaks members.

Re: WikiLeaks reveals the NSA spied on Berlusconi and his closest advisors

#44

Post by EdHominem »

chatmasta wrote: post #38
ApplaudPumice wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what are his personal motives? Provide some sources.

I don't know what they are. But do you think it's a coincidence that after a dull two years of leaks, this leak occurred in the same month the UK ignored the UN ruling in his favor? He's playing his next card. I have no idea what his motives are, do you?

Try reading your comments out loud.

Re: WikiLeaks reveals the NSA spied on Berlusconi and his closest advisors

#45

Post by dmix »

Too bad the newspaper decided to go with the "NSA is spying on x president" headline rather than focusing on the content of the spying (involving details relevant to Italian politics and history) which is clearly the intended goal in releasing this.

The responses here on HN are sadly predictable as a result and likely will draw a similar response from the public.

Wikieaks has never really had a moral agenda like Snowden in regards to why they are releasing the information in the first place. Assange has repeatedly stated that he simply believes all secret information should be released. In the process they hope to expose corruption in the political systems. The fact they released proof the NSA was spying on a foreign leader isn't the story here, nor it that really a big noteworthy reveal considering the endless Snowden leaks, so we should stop pretending that was the real goal here and dismissing it on those grounds.

That being said, the fact Wikileaks was capable of getting access to plaintext NSA intercepts is in fact interesting. Not the usual high-level vague Snowden powerpoint slides. So if we're going to play that game this is still atypical in the greater scope of the NSA releases in the past two years.

Re: WikiLeaks reveals the NSA spied on Berlusconi and his closest advisors

#46

Post by chatmasta »

EdHominem wrote: post #41
chatmasta wrote: post #14

Julian Assange has some "big balls." Either he really likes pushing his luck, or his end game is way bigger than anyone realizes. He was just starting to curry the favor of the general public. He was the subject of a prominent biopic, he received a positive resolution from the UN. He has a lot of supporters, but they're not all fully sold on his philosophy. Many of his supporters might consider this leak not in the s…

Forgive everyone if they fail to believe that. The NSA has been shown to be lying with everything else it has said so likely this is somehow a lie as well. No, it's far better to keep an eye peeled on everything they do now that they've been shown to be trying to slip their mandate. > Therefore one has to wonder what Assange's motivation is behind this leak [...] No, not really. His motives are really clear. Force th…

I have no motives. I'm commenting on an Internet forum for fun. Should we continue this EdNauseum or let it go?

Re: WikiLeaks reveals the NSA spied on Berlusconi and his closest advisors

#47

Post by abecedarius »

duncan_bayne wrote: post #3
pnathan wrote: post #2

In news today, the SIGINT branch of the United States government collected signals intelligence on a key public official in another country; in particular, it did this at a moment of crisis, allowing the United States government to have an edge of knowledge in charting its policies.

Yeah I sort of thought that's its legitimate purpose (as opposed to domestic surveillance).

Yes, spying to promote the interests of the people of the U.S. is legitimate in a world with other states with armies and the occasional bin Laden, etc. That's different from spying to promote the power of the executive, its fave corporations, the spies themselves, their counterparts in other nations, and who knows what else. The government is in theory our employees, and I feel more threatened by these employees who act like our masters than I do by their legitimate targets.

Assange's quote in the OP is all about alleged abuses that I as supposed employer would want to hear about: "Today we showed that UN Secretary General Ban KiMoon's private meetings over how to save the planet from climate change were bugged by a country intent on protecting its largest oil companies. We previously published Hillary Clinton orders that US diplomats were to steal the Secretary General's DNA. The US government has signed agreements with the UN that it will not engage in such conduct against the UN--let alone its Secretary General. It will be interesting to see the UN's reaction, because if the Secretary General can be targetted without consequence then everyone from world leader to street sweeper is at risk."

Re: WikiLeaks reveals the NSA spied on Berlusconi and his closest advisors

#48

Post by EdHominem »

SXX wrote: post #18
chatmasta wrote: post #14

Julian Assange has some "big balls." Either he really likes pushing his luck, or his end game is way bigger than anyone realizes. He was just starting to curry the favor of the general public. He was the subject of a prominent biopic, he received a positive resolution from the UN. He has a lot of supporters, but they're not all fully sold on his philosophy. Many of his supporters might consider this leak not in the s…

There is flaw in your logic. Assange as public person is known because of WikiLeaks, but WikiLeaks it's not just Assange. And timing can be simply explained by fact that they always stated only few percent of materials they have are published since verification is extremely hard.

And also that they've always said they're going to help publish for maximum impact.

Like we'd expect otherwise.

Re: WikiLeaks reveals the NSA spied on Berlusconi and his closest advisors

#49

Post by EdHominem »

chatmasta wrote: post #46
EdHominem wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive everyone if they fail to believe that. The NSA has been shown to be lying with everything else it has said so likely this is somehow a lie as well. No, it's far better to keep an eye peeled on everything they do now that they've been shown to be trying to slip their mandate. > Therefore one has to wonder what Assange's motivation is behind this leak [...] No, not really. His motives are really clear. Force th…

I have no motives. I'm commenting on an Internet forum for fun. Should we continue this EdNauseum or let it go?

I'm glad my username amused you, but you're the originator of a thread calling Assange's message into question because you "don't know his motives".

"Look, we've had police combing this guy's house for weeks and we have nothing! Nobody is that clean, he must be dirty!"

But of course we all believe that you're just honestly speculating.

Re: WikiLeaks reveals the NSA spied on Berlusconi and his closest advisors

#50

Post by chatmasta »

EdHominem wrote: post #44
chatmasta wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what they are. But do you think it's a coincidence that after a dull two years of leaks, this leak occurred in the same month the UK ignored the UN ruling in his favor? He's playing his next card. I have no idea what his motives are, do you?

Try reading your comments out loud.

I do. They fuel my narcissism. Thanks for reading.
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