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The Ad Blocking Wars

nytimes.com

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Re: The Ad Blocking Wars

#201

Post by konschubert »

colmvp wrote: post #14

Arguments seem to glaze over the ethics of advertising and imply that it's a benign, acceptable practice. Yet the more I read psychology, the more I am aware of ways advertising can manipulate the thoughts we have towards brands when we're not aware of it. So to protect myself, I try to avoid ads in any circumstances (ublock, minimal usage of ad-supported apps). Quite frankly I'd rather have more subscriptions. I pay…

The issue with subscriptions is that they get very expensive if you want to subscribe to all the blogs you're reading.

Maybe micropayments are a better alternative, but the current implementations all rise the barrier of entry in a way that makes them undesirable.

I have tried to think of a better system and I have written it down as a free "micropayment standard". You can find it here, I am looking forward to any comments.

https://konstantinschubert.github.io/pennytoken-spec/

I am also working on a reference implementation over here: http://micropayment-service.boosted.science/

I'd be happy about some feedback.

Re: The Ad Blocking Wars

#202

Post by proactivesvcs »

I think it's far past time to stop calling this "ad blocking". It's computer security. When a site like MSN continues using an advertising organisation that has already infected its readers, and get stung again by the same organisation, we should start using the correct language. It's not just a choice a person makes to keep their web browsing distraction-free: it is a necessary security precaution.

What used to be "ad blocking" is now part of an anti-virus solution.

Re: The Ad Blocking Wars

#203

Post by asr »

ddeck wrote: post #175
colmvp wrote: post #14

Arguments seem to glaze over the ethics of advertising and imply that it's a benign, acceptable practice. Yet the more I read psychology, the more I am aware of ways advertising can manipulate the thoughts we have towards brands when we're not aware of it. So to protect myself, I try to avoid ads in any circumstances (ublock, minimal usage of ad-supported apps). Quite frankly I'd rather have more subscriptions. I pay…

I think there's a distinction to be made between advertising and marketing, at least the way I define them. Advertising is about making consumers aware of a product or service that they may use if they were aware of it. This seems reasonable and generally beneficial. Marketing is about using psychological techniques to manipulate consumers preferences such that they want to consume products and services that they oth…

This distinction is generally made when economists think about advertising too -- for example: http://economics.virginia.edu/sites/economics.virginia.edu/f...

Though I've never heard "advertising" and "marketing" used to describe information content vs. persuasion, it would be a great shorthand.

Re: The Ad Blocking Wars

#204

Post by FollowSteph3 »

I see it as a fundamental issue of who will pay for the content. For example the New York Times has to pay people to write articles. People do not want to pay to read the articles nor do they want ads. So how does the NYT pay its staff? Until we find a good answer this battle will continue.

And for those of you who say you would pay, how many subscriptions are you currently paying for? How many paywalls have you tried to bypass? Paying for content just doesn't work because people are too use to free :(

Re: The Ad Blocking Wars

#205

Post by buserror »

tracker1 wrote: post #129
bunderbunder wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I do go for the content. Oftentimes this is only to be unable to access it because all the ads bring my browser to its knees, or even crash it. Yeah, I suppose the makers of these ads would suggest the solution to this problem is that I spend a few hundred to a thousand bucks on some shiny new electronics. Funny how they manage to be both the cause of and the solution to the problem. Instead I use an adbloc…

Exactly, and why android desperately needs ad blocking ability... So many sites are downright unusable on mobile phones. I'm not a big apple fan, and definitely not into walled gardens... that said, I avoided even considering apple early on because I didn't like AT&T... not I'm considering an iPhone for my next phone, just so I can have ad blocking.

That's why I stopped browsing from my phone and tablet. Completely. I read some headlines, and if I remember, I read them again using the desktop browser.

Re: The Ad Blocking Wars

#206

Post by aninhumer »

punee wrote: post #189
dredmorbius wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you should ask.... If I'm looking for something to buy: 1. I'll search for it directly. In particular, I'm interested in solid reviews. This quite often means not giving much credence to review mills -- CNET, Yelp, etc., -- where the nature and intentions of reviewers are quite often suspect. Amazon have this problem as well, though to a very slightly lesser extent. 2. Map-based systems (OpenStreetMap, Google M…

It's quite telling, but by no means surprising on Hacker News, that you completely failed to address the question. The question wasn't "What would you do if you were looking for something to buy". The question is: "What would you do if you were a business and had something to sell?"

But the answer to the latter depends on the answer to the former. For example, if people tend to rely on review sites to make their choices, you should make sure your product compares favourably to the competition, and then solicit reviews for it. (And if you can't do that, maybe your product isn't worth buying.)

Re: The Ad Blocking Wars

#207

Post by aninhumer »

punee wrote: post #190
nitwit005 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That imagines there's no other way of people being informed. People would simply subscribe to some sort of service that reviews things. As it is, newspapers and magazines have reviews of most of the items normal people care about.

Where is that service if it's so valuable?

It exists (e.g. Which? in the UK), it's just undervalued because advertising already provides a low quality but free source of information.

Re: The Ad Blocking Wars

#208

Post by laotzu »

seanwilson wrote: post #101
colmvp wrote: post #14

Arguments seem to glaze over the ethics of advertising and imply that it's a benign, acceptable practice. Yet the more I read psychology, the more I am aware of ways advertising can manipulate the thoughts we have towards brands when we're not aware of it. So to protect myself, I try to avoid ads in any circumstances (ublock, minimal usage of ad-supported apps). Quite frankly I'd rather have more subscriptions. I pay…

> Yet the more I read psychology, the more I am aware of ways advertising can manipulate the thoughts we have towards brands when we're not aware of it. So to protect myself, I try to avoid ads in any circumstances (ublock, minimal usage of ad-supported apps). How much are you really worried by this? Amazon know my purchasing history for over 5 years and the best they seem to do is show me offers for things similar t…

>if it's only unconsciously influencing me a tiny amount

If it is unconsciously influencing you how would you know if it is only doing so "a tiny amount"?

Re: The Ad Blocking Wars

#209

Post by laotzu »

1stop wrote: post #153
deelowe wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, I pay for youtube red so that I don't have to deal with ads. Same goes for netflix and several other services. My point isn't that I think ads are awesome, but that doesn't make ad blocking OK.

You are saying it isn't my right to consume what I choose? Like is lynx an ad blocker, because it's text based? What is the difference between lynx and an ad blocker?

>You are saying it isn't my right to consume what I choose?

That's what the law says actually. Not trying to be snide here but unfortunately the law does not allow for sovereign domain over one's own body (at least in the US -- and elsewhere) in many cases. Though I realize you are asking in regards to advertisements.

Re: The Ad Blocking Wars

#210

Post by Lawtonfogle »

seanwilson wrote: post #101
colmvp wrote: post #14

Arguments seem to glaze over the ethics of advertising and imply that it's a benign, acceptable practice. Yet the more I read psychology, the more I am aware of ways advertising can manipulate the thoughts we have towards brands when we're not aware of it. So to protect myself, I try to avoid ads in any circumstances (ublock, minimal usage of ad-supported apps). Quite frankly I'd rather have more subscriptions. I pay…

> Yet the more I read psychology, the more I am aware of ways advertising can manipulate the thoughts we have towards brands when we're not aware of it. So to protect myself, I try to avoid ads in any circumstances (ublock, minimal usage of ad-supported apps). How much are you really worried by this? Amazon know my purchasing history for over 5 years and the best they seem to do is show me offers for things similar t…

>How much are you really worried by this?

I'm not much worried right now. I'm worried about where we are going, especially with machine learning. Take a look at the story of Target identifying when a girl was pregnant before her own father knew. Then apply this to any area where you have any reason at all to keep a secret. Maybe you are gay with parents who will rather you be homeless than living in their home. Maybe you have a mental illness but rather the rest of the world not know about it. Maybe you like democracy in a country where you aren't allowed to. Eventually they will find ways to tease this information out with all the data they have tracked about us.

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