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The Ad Blocking Wars

nytimes.com

101–110 of 236 posts

Re: The Ad Blocking Wars

#101
post #14

Arguments seem to glaze over the ethics of advertising and imply that it's a benign, acceptable practice. Yet the more I read psychology, the more I am aware of ways advertising can manipulate the thoughts we have towards brands when we're not aware of it. So to protect myself, I try to avoid ads in any circumstances (ublock, minimal usage of ad-supported apps). Quite frankly I'd rather have more subscriptions. I pay…

> Yet the more I read psychology, the more I am aware of ways advertising can manipulate the thoughts we have towards brands when we're not aware of it. So to protect myself, I try to avoid ads in any circumstances (ublock, minimal usage of ad-supported apps).

How much are you really worried by this? Amazon know my purchasing history for over 5 years and the best they seem to do is show me offers for things similar to what I've already bought which I'm not going to buy again for a long time.

I admit seeing brands and advertising will introduce a bias but I can't see how it would influence me much when for important/expensive purchases I usually do a lot of research first.

I don't love advertising but if it's only unconsciously influencing me a tiny amount in return for many free services it doesn't really bother me.

Re: The Ad Blocking Wars

#103

My thought is that we should be replicating the "pull" based commerce process of the shopping mall but doing it electronically. So instead of bombarding people with stuff they don't want in a context that doesn't make sense - ads for products on the sidelines of other unrelated content - we build a platform where people can get as close to the in person shopping experience as possible from their home. Obviously there…

A few years ago, Mozilla Labs was prototyping a client-side API called "User Personalization" for users to express their interests or purchasing intent:

https://blog.mozilla.org/labs/2013/07/a-user-personalization...

Re: The Ad Blocking Wars

#104
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic, you shouldn't be online at all... I don't quite get fundamentalists like you. I cannot see how people can deny that the New York Times, Wikipedia, or even HN, Reddit & XKCD add something valuable.

>By that logic, you shouldn't be online at all... That's a strange leap of logic. >Wikipedia Asks for donations, it doesn't show ads. There are many other websites that are internally funded in other ways that exclude direct ads.

And there are many that are. For those that are you really have two or three options morally:

1) Don't visit the site 2) Visit the site and don't use an ad blocker 3) Pay for premium service (e.g. youtube red) wherever it's available

I refuse to accept that there's some moral high ground to using an ad blocking service. Especially for people like us (I assume you work in tech) where a huge percentage of our salaries is paid for by these ad systems.

Re: The Ad Blocking Wars

#105

Online advertising is a perfect example of the tragedy of the commons, where that commons is the general public's attention. Any individual publisher or advertiser can do a little bit better by surpassing what the general public finds acceptable, but when enough of them do this some of the general public resorts to ad blockers - causing overall ad revenues to decline, which causes more publishers and advertisers to p…

At the end of the day, we all agree that shining shit is their job. Media/Ad buyers and sellers need to realize that there are 2 issues (intrusive ads and tracking) at play, not one. The IAB can't deflect on "bad actors" too much longer and they know it - that campaign has run it's course. They have to correct their own behavior and not modify ours as they're naturally inclined to try.

Let's add a third: security. You can't let a 3rd party advertiser send arbitrary web content to your customers, and then just wash your hands of it and say "It wasn't us, it was the ad network" when it eventually gets used to deliver malware to your customers.

It's like if you hired a housecleaning service and they told you "Whoops, looks like somebody took a dump on your living room floor. Not our fault though. It was a subcontractor."

Re: The Ad Blocking Wars

#106
Time for advertising go (mostly) go away.

- 10+ years of Google not giving a damn over all the "Fake Download Button" ads, "Click here to Play" ads, "fake Next Slide" ads and me un-installing malware my parents accidentally installed by clicking on those ads.

- Google not giving a damn about fake clicks from competitors and bots when honest businesses purchase adwords.

- Websites with 3mb of advertisements loading.

- Video ads that start playing automatically.

- The days when TechCrunch.com has almost 10mb of scripts loading (during the Sarah Lacy John Carr days). Yes. 10MB of all sorts of analytics and javascripts loading on TechCrunch.

- Me paying $300 for a top banner ad and making NO sales of my Calendar ToDoCal on a design website. Then for the hell of it, paid $20 for a sidebar ad on porn network and get 2-3 paying customers from it.

- Spending $200 in Google Adwords competiting with 20 other businesses for a $1.50 click that doesn't even turn into a customer.

Yeah, we're pretty pissed at ads and the ad industry and they deserve exactly what they're going to get. Expulsion from people's lives. It's sad a lot of good content fueled by moderate ads will get caught up in it but. Hey, that's life. The moderates are punished by the actions of the extremes. All 7 computers in the house have ad blocker and will continue indefinitely. It's been storming for a while. Let it rain.

Re: The Ad Blocking Wars

#107

Why don't sites just serve up the ads from their own domain?

The lack of cross-site tracking makes the ads far less targeted, losing a good bit of the amount advertisers will pay for ads. Additionally, advertisers don't trust the logs of the site publishing the ads in the way they trust Google, further reducing the ad price. And adblockers already support hiding specific elements of the page, even if they don't involve making an HTTP request to a designated advertising domain.…

Ironically, Mozilla solved this in a privacy-respecting way, and the internet went apeshit over it and demanded its removal from the browser.

That whole "sponsored tiles" thing was actually incredibly thoughtfully designed:

* Third parties provide tiles to Mozilla, who gets to vet them, etc.

* Tiles get put into bundles hosted by Mozilla and carrying metadata which can be used to target.

* The browser periodically downloads bundles of tiles and client-side, the browser decides based on browsing history and bundle metadata which tiles to display.

Nowhere in this process did advertisers or even Mozilla get to know the browsing history of the end user. Nowhere in this process did advertisers or Mozilla get to know which sites in the browser history caused the decision to display a particular tile. All storage of history and decision-making on what to show was done client-side-only.

The more I think about it, the more I think something like that needs to be discussed as a real alternative to how things are done now.

Re: The Ad Blocking Wars

#108

If all ad methods hypothetically disappeared, what would be the alternatives for businesses to promote their services and goods?

Word of mouth, which is what really works anyway?

Good service, good products, both go a long, long way towards places I want to buy things. I mostly put items on my Amazon wish list when someone recommends them, not based on ads I see.

Re: The Ad Blocking Wars

#109
post #14

Arguments seem to glaze over the ethics of advertising and imply that it's a benign, acceptable practice. Yet the more I read psychology, the more I am aware of ways advertising can manipulate the thoughts we have towards brands when we're not aware of it. So to protect myself, I try to avoid ads in any circumstances (ublock, minimal usage of ad-supported apps). Quite frankly I'd rather have more subscriptions. I pay…

re: content

There are some who believe that distribution channels are actually more valuable than any content that passes through them. That is, content distribution is potentially a higher value business than content creation.

Assuming the Internet as a distribution channel, who owns or controls access to it? Rhetorical question.

One view is that the price of internet access is the price of "content".

If the internet was meant to be a medium for paid content, then why has so much content been shared through it "for free" beginning in the late 80's/early 90's and continuing even today?

I certainly do not know. What I remember is that only a minority of the population were avid www users when the public www first appeared in 1993.

So, in 1993, why upload "free content" that would otherwise be under paid subscription?

For the novelty of it?

To jumpstart the www?

To entice people to use the www?

Regardless of the reason, the end result is that the genie is out of the bottle.

The sharing of content "for free" started early on and continued unabated, even as www usage grew.

Today, if an internet subscriber seeks "content" she will find it, in large quantities, without ever paying anyone, except her access provider.

Greeting users with a deluge of advertising is not going to change the facts: users are continually presented with free content that they once would have had to pay for. The deluge of ads is not a "cost" of the content. It's just a new source of revenue for those who want to play www middleman (who should be very thankful for all the money they have made without ever having had to create any real content). At the same time, as a result the signal to noise ratio has become a serious problem for many www users.

(Users are also presented with enormous amounts of fake, garbage "content". That only highlights how open and inexpensive content distribution has become.)

It is undeniable that users can block the ads and other garbage and keep the content. The content is not going away. And the www will still keep growing.

With the barriers to distribution so low, it is no surprise that users should have to filter out some garbage.

The only surprise is how long it's taken them to start doing it.

What's nice is that filtering can be automated, in the same way the generation of ads and fake content have been automated.

There was time in the history of email before the ubiquitous use of spam filters. And there is a time in the history of the www before the ubiquitous use of ad blockers. That time is coming to a close.

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