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Washington Should Prepare for Saudi Arabia's Collapse

theatlantic.com

181–190 of 223 posts

Re: Washington Should Prepare for Saudi Arabia's Collapse

#181
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jordan is mostly just known as Jordan, whereas Saudi Arabia is in fact widely known by this full name. Witness the URL difference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia

That is rather simply explained by the fact that Kingdom od Saudi Arabia doesn't cover all of geographical Arabia.

The Kingdom of Jordan also doesn't cover the entirety of the river Jordan.

Re: Washington Should Prepare for Saudi Arabia's Collapse

#182
post #16
post #6

This article comes from someone who clearly doesn't understand Saudi Arabia. It keeps on portraying Saudi Arabia as an extremism exporter while it is a very moderate country, just turn on their media ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Broadcasting_Cente... ) and you will see a very different nation from what is portrayed here. Saudis have suffered a lot in the War on Terrorism, the number of Saudis who died…

Everyone please stop voting this person down, I don't completely agree with the post but it's a commonly held view in SA and is given politely and respectfully. I think it deserves addressing in the same spirit. The SA government doesn't support Al Qaeda of course, but the government does heavily fund extensive networks of religious schools and charities that push a very intolerant and view of non-Muslims and non-Wah…

"Where Saudi Arabia is funding extremism largely by accident..."

It's pretty hard to believe that the Kingdom hasn't figured out this is happening and are completely helpless to stop it. They either can't or won't, but they certainly know who is doing it and the extent it is occurring.

Re: Washington Should Prepare for Saudi Arabia's Collapse

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will freely admit that I don't understand the politics of Saudi Arabia. But is it not a known fact that the 9-11 operators were a) Saudi, and b) backed by the Saudi government? I'm certainly happy to be proven wrong, but if I'm correct here, that seems a lot to me to fit in with the concept of "exporting terrorism".

> But is it not a known fact that the 9-11 operators were a) Saudi, and b) backed by the Saudi government? a) yes, b) no. Saudi government's relations with Osama bin Laden and his network went sour in about 1990.

By "Saudi government" if that person means wealthy princes related to the current ruling dynasty, then the answer of course is yes.

Re: Washington Should Prepare for Saudi Arabia's Collapse

#184
post #31

And Russia. In the harsh world of realpolitik no one cares if Venezuela falls apart, except for the Venezuelans. If Russia falls apart it's a serious problem for everyone, because it won't fall apart quietly or peacefully.

> If Russia falls apart it's a serious problem for everyone, because it won't fall apart quietly or peacefully. It might still be an improvement over its current approach - which is not falling apart, but is neither quiet nor peaceful. There's a fair bit of political analysis that suggests that Russia is for example about to test NATO by starting a war with Turkey, and that it is deliberately killing civilians in Syr…

You think things are bad now? Wait until Russia falls apart and nuclear weapons start getting auctioned off to terrorist groups around the world. Things are awesome compared to a world where the Russian state has failed.

Re: Washington Should Prepare for Saudi Arabia's Collapse

#186
post #153
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The summarize one piece of evidence, the 20th hijacker says he had support from the core Saudi Royal family, and listed specific individuals, along with a host of other financial evidence: ">Zacarias Moussaoui, a convicted 9/11 co-conspirator, says members of Saudi Arabia’s royal family helped finance al Qaeda in the years just prior to the 2001 terrorist attacks..." When facing deposition, Moussaoui named specific n…

But then I don't understand what you mean by "Saudi Arabia's government is in favor of the United States".

Politics makes for strange bedfellows.

The head of the House of Saud, the King, and much of the military believe that military integration, weapons sales, and mutual defense scenarios from the Americans will benefit Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia also has about ten trillion in oil reserves, and the United States needs oil.

Historically, Saudi Arabia was just the slice of the former Ottoman Empire the British and French let us rule. Hence Saudi Aramco's original name: "The Saudi-American Oil Company."

Lucky for us that Saudi Arabia turned out to have such large oil reserves. Of course, the area is also at a strategic naval point, both of which explain the number of United States' military bases in the region.

So some of the populace sees the Muslim world as being subjegated in their Holy Land, and some percentage of them are fans of violence and meyhem.

An analogous situation would be how rich Irish-Americans funded the IRA for decades, despite an official United States' government stance that they were a terrorist group.

Re: Washington Should Prepare for Saudi Arabia's Collapse

#187
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely, they had taps but did not know what they were talking about. It was widely reported that, pre-9/11, Arabic translators were scarce in most Western intelligence services including the US, since their traditional focus were Russian, Eastern-European languages, and Chinese. You just need basic informal codes for most logistic purposes (which would be mostly "I've done this, I've done that" to confirm timing…

Crashing highjacked planes was a known scenario. In fact, FOX broadcast a fictionalized scenario where a commercial airliner was highjacked and set on a crash course with the WTC about six months before 9/11/01.

That needs a link.

I find http://911blogger.com/news/2013-05-16/hollywood-and-911-movi... but nothing there about anything broadcast on Fox.

Re: Washington Should Prepare for Saudi Arabia's Collapse

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crashing highjacked planes was a known scenario. In fact, FOX broadcast a fictionalized scenario where a commercial airliner was highjacked and set on a crash course with the WTC about six months before 9/11/01.

That needs a link. I find http://911blogger.com/news/2013-05-16/hollywood-and-911-movi... but nothing there about anything broadcast on Fox.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lone_Gunmen_(TV_series)#...

First episode: https://youtu.be/EjbQ-BDh4PU

Edit: the author of your link addresses the episode in the comments section, "The Lone Gunmen Pilot Episode", and says that the article you linked was only focused on things "in production" when the attack occurred.

Re: Washington Should Prepare for Saudi Arabia's Collapse

#189
post #78
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To give an actual example, in Bosnia the leader of the Salafi movement has been arrested for recruiting for ISIS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilal_Bosni%C4%87

He's far from being a Salafi. He's a Bin Laden sympathizer, for one. Ask any mainstream Muslim who the Salafi scholars are in recent times and undoubtedly one of the first names mentioned would be the late Ibn Baz. Ibn Baz was a harsh critic of Bin Laden and his ideology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Aziz_ibn_Baz#Osama_bin_... Here is confirmation from Al Fawzan (the most-respected Saudi scholar now) regardin…

It's more a case of the more subtle, nuanced and trivial the differences are between two religious sects, the more vehemently they resent each other.

Re: Washington Should Prepare for Saudi Arabia's Collapse

#190
post #186
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then I don't understand what you mean by "Saudi Arabia's government is in favor of the United States".

Politics makes for strange bedfellows. The head of the House of Saud, the King, and much of the military believe that military integration, weapons sales, and mutual defense scenarios from the Americans will benefit Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia also has about ten trillion in oil reserves, and the United States needs oil. Historically, Saudi Arabia was just the slice of the former Ottoman Empire the British and French l…

OK, I'm getting the picture that the higher up the leadership you look, the less likely they are to want to act against the US. Thanks.
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