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Apple is hiring engineers to bring WebRTC to Safari

jobs.apple.com

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Re: Apple is hiring engineers to bring WebRTC to Safari

#81

Post by slac »

oceanstone wrote: post #28
ilostmykeys wrote: post #16

How about the security issue with WebRTC where the browser leaks the IP address? It's part of the way WebRTC works so I can't see how that can be fixed. It's both a security issue and a key enabling feature. Update: It looks like Google Chrome (desktop) team has published a plugin that alleviates the problem but can cause performance degradations with apps that use WebRTC. They seem to suggest that a decent fix won't…

> How about the security issue with WebRTC where the browser leaks the IP address Yes, even if the user is behind a VPN, WebRTC will expose their ISP-given public IP. Luckily Firefox allows WebRTC to be disabled. Recently they added a new setting that alleviates that leak for the majority of VPN users, while allowing WebRTC to still be enabled. Would be awesome if Chrome allowed WebRTC to be disabled as well.

Please read https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/discuss-webrtc/_5hL0...

The new Chrome behavior should alleviate the need to disable. Basically, the behavior that caused the concern has been changed significantly.

Re: Apple is hiring engineers to bring WebRTC to Safari

#82

Post by JoeAltmaier »

greggarious wrote: post #63

The WebRTC spec (as it currently stands) exposes your local IP address. So I hope Apple thinks about the privacy implications of that. (Right now Tor Browser keeps it click to activate, IIRC)

Why is this a thing? Your local ip address can be easily guessed. Also, secrecy is not security. I think 'exposing addresses' is a red herring, in such a small address space.

Re: Apple is hiring engineers to bring WebRTC to Safari

#83

Post by coldtea »

esailija wrote: post #70
masklinn wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's more than a little misleading: * background sync is not a web standard, it's experimental chrome tech (though it's been submitted to the WICG) * I can only assume "proper offline" refers to service workers which is a WD with partial support (in the browsers in which it's implemented, which exclude Edge and webkit), webkit has it listed as "under consideration" and the last spec revision landed around the time…

There are probably hundreds of new APIs that have come after 2012 or whatever the year was when the ball was dropped. Those were just "from the top of my head" not something to be nit picked. I didn't also literally mean that they are currently implemented by all of those browsers today. My point is that I expect them to be implemented browsers other than Safari sooner or later as they have strongly signaled. Safari…

>I didn't also literally mean that they are currently implemented by all of those browsers today. My point is that I expect them to be implemented browsers other than Safari sooner or later as they have strongly signaled. Safari has not signaled anything about them. Or if they have, provide evidence of it and I will apologize.

Has Android's mobile Chrome browser signalled anything more?

Because for years it has been even MORE behind Mobil Safari regarding speed and capabilities.

(And let's not even get started on the crap-fest that was Android's default browser).

Re: Apple is hiring engineers to bring WebRTC to Safari

#84

Post by coldtea »

esailija wrote: post #62
coldtea wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would be surprised to see any web standard that makes iOS Safari better for "appy web apps" (web apps that are more like native apps rather than documents and forms) implemented, as that eventually just makes Safari an alternative AppStore without reviews. This conspiracy thinking has been played again and again. Few users cares for logging into some website from mobile Safari just to get a subpar experience over…

> In fact Safari has often been the best mobile browser There are no other browsers on iOS. When you are using Chrome it is using UIWebView (in other words, it is forced to be a crippled Safari due to anti-competitive policy). Although recent Chrome will be using WKWebView which means at least it's same as Safari. The UI around the browser is not the browser. > Few users cares for logging into some website from mobil…

>In fact Safari has often been the best mobile browser

I know. I meant across platforms. It's obviously the best on in iOS.

>Few users could tell any difference between native app and web app running in a browser that has modern appy capabilities, provided there is same quality of implementation. The only thing that can make the experience subpar is precisely the lack of capabilities.

For one, a web app adds the extra burden of a JS VM and DOM over native code. This rules out all kinds of graphic and CPU intensive apps. Actually, for any app that's not just a glorified content screen / database view, there's not even a comparison between a web and a native implementation.

Even for basically text-based content consumptions apps, like Flipboard, they had to jump through all kinds of hoops to get smooth 60 fps scrolling within a web view.

And of course there's the battery life, that's a real killer with web apps.

A future based on web apps for mobile is a regression over even 2005's state of the art in the desktop. And it's an experience similar to cross-platform apps -- that is, a "lowest common denominator" across mobile platforms.

Re: Apple is hiring engineers to bring WebRTC to Safari

#85

Post by coldtea »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #65
coldtea wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would be surprised to see any web standard that makes iOS Safari better for "appy web apps" (web apps that are more like native apps rather than documents and forms) implemented, as that eventually just makes Safari an alternative AppStore without reviews. This conspiracy thinking has been played again and again. Few users cares for logging into some website from mobile Safari just to get a subpar experience over…

Since when has asking "cui bono?" been considered conspiracy thinking? Sounds like somebody might be a product manager at Apple.

>Since when has asking "cui bono?" been considered conspiracy thinking?

"Cui bono" is a necessary (but not sufficient) ingredient of any conspiracy thinking.

>Sounds like somebody might be a product manager at Apple

I rest my case.

Re: Apple is hiring engineers to bring WebRTC to Safari

#87

Post by shmerl »

TD-Linux wrote: post #42
shmerl wrote: post #4

At last. Where have they been all this time, under a rock? Does it mean they'll start supporting Opus as well?

Opus is mandatory for WebRTC, so presumably. That doesn't necessarily mean support for ogg opus in audio tags, though.

> That doesn't necessarily mean support for ogg opus in audio tags, though.

Oh, Apple will be Apple if they'll not enable Opus in audio tags. So classy.

Re: Apple is hiring engineers to bring WebRTC to Safari

#88

Post by shmerl »

fredsir wrote: post #40
Kequc wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember when IE was the gloomy figure in the corner of the room that every developer knew was there, but there was nothing they could do about it? People didn't catch on that IE was bad until almost a decade later, by then it had finally gotten not bad. These days I don't even have to think about it because my websites work better in it, more often than not, when I open them in it for the first time. Safari is the o…

I think the perspective is skewed, because who are websites for? Not the developers, that's for sure. It's for the users, and if the users think that Safari is better, than there might be a reason for this madness, and the other browsers should adjust their goals. I'm a developer myself, and did webdevelopment professionally for 7 years until I switched paths 3 years ago. I know all about supporting multiple browsers…

> chrome seems more skewed towards functionality, and Safari towards design.

Not supporting standards has nothing to do with design. It's either a deliberate sabotage of interoperaibility for the purpose of lock-in and anti-competitive crookedness (not unlikely for Apple), or simply total neglect. Either way, it results in technology being held back because Safari has enough of a market share to do it. That's why calling it "new IE" (in a derogatory way) is quite appropriate.

Re: Apple is hiring engineers to bring WebRTC to Safari

#90

Post by shmerl »

SiVal wrote: post #53
ksec wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you get 80%+ of your OS updated within 6 months this isn't so much of a problem.

It's interesting to note the unprecedented success Apple has achieved at keeping millions of its users at the very leading edge of Apple OS technologies along with its "difficulties" keeping up with new Web technologies. And it's amazing how rapidly they are able to invent a whole new programming language, compiler, toolchain, overhaul the OS APIs, add new OS features, and innovate Apple-only "native" technologies on…

> I might suspect that they were intentionally impeding the progress of the Web, sabotaging all of us while putting on a great show

You think they aren't capable of that? Isn't it the same thing they are doing now with not supporting Vulkan and sabotaging open graphics API by pushing their lock-in Metal instead?

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