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Apple is hiring engineers to bring WebRTC to Safari

jobs.apple.com

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Re: Apple is hiring engineers to bring WebRTC to Safari

#61

Post by esailija »

coldtea wrote: post #59
esailija wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that "app" doesn't have any real capabilities so what's the point other than bookmarking websites? There's no background sync, proper offline, no notifications, no (usable) indexeddb, no rtc, no file system, no media sinks, no media sessions ... these are from the top of my head. You have a point that long time ago Apple was the one pushing the browser as application platform but today is not the same as the long…

> There's no background sync, proper offline, no notifications, no (usable) indexeddb, no rtc, no file system, no media sinks, no media sessions ... these are from the top of my head. So, more or less just like with the desktop web. What you describe is not web apps, it's some proprietary hybrid mix allowed inside Safari with hooks to the whole OS.

No, those are web standards implemented by other browsers like Chrome, Firefox and Edge.

Re: Apple is hiring engineers to bring WebRTC to Safari

#62

Post by esailija »

coldtea wrote: post #58
esailija wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be surprised to see any web standard that makes iOS Safari better for "appy web apps" (web apps that are more like native apps rather than documents and forms) implemented, as that eventually just makes Safari an alternative AppStore without reviews. Of course I would love it because as a developer this is the dream but I am very skeptical that Apple will do it.

> I would be surprised to see any web standard that makes iOS Safari better for "appy web apps" (web apps that are more like native apps rather than documents and forms) implemented, as that eventually just makes Safari an alternative AppStore without reviews. This conspiracy thinking has been played again and again. Few users cares for logging into some website from mobile Safari just to get a subpar experience over…

> In fact Safari has often been the best mobile browser

There are no other browsers on iOS. When you are using Chrome it is using UIWebView (in other words, it is forced to be a crippled Safari due to anti-competitive policy). Although recent Chrome will be using WKWebView which means at least it's same as Safari. The UI around the browser is not the browser.

> Few users cares for logging into some website from mobile Safari just to get a subpar experience over a native app (or a hybrid app),

Few users could tell any difference between native app and web app running in a browser that has modern appy capabilities, provided there is same quality of implementation. The only thing that can make the experience subpar is precisely the lack of capabilities.

Re: Apple is hiring engineers to bring WebRTC to Safari

#64

Post by k__ »

boyaka wrote: post #38
HappyTypist wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is going to pay for the proxy's bandwidth? Apple, Google, Mozilla? Good luck. The site owner? Well, the site owner now has your IP!

People are typically okay with site owners having their IP, because site owners tend to not be malicious. You could only connect with people that you completely trust, but with many applications the users might be complete strangers or merely internet acquaintances. Given the power, there would be malicious users taking advantage of it. This was a big deal with Skype because people weren't aware that adding a contact…

If you want this behavior, you have to use WebSockets.

WebRTC is peer-2-peer.

Re: Apple is hiring engineers to bring WebRTC to Safari

#65

Post by Hydraulix989 »

coldtea wrote: post #58
esailija wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be surprised to see any web standard that makes iOS Safari better for "appy web apps" (web apps that are more like native apps rather than documents and forms) implemented, as that eventually just makes Safari an alternative AppStore without reviews. Of course I would love it because as a developer this is the dream but I am very skeptical that Apple will do it.

> I would be surprised to see any web standard that makes iOS Safari better for "appy web apps" (web apps that are more like native apps rather than documents and forms) implemented, as that eventually just makes Safari an alternative AppStore without reviews. This conspiracy thinking has been played again and again. Few users cares for logging into some website from mobile Safari just to get a subpar experience over…

Since when has asking "cui bono?" been considered conspiracy thinking?

Sounds like somebody might be a product manager at Apple.

Re: Apple is hiring engineers to bring WebRTC to Safari

#66

Post by Hydraulix989 »

SiVal wrote: post #53
ksec wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you get 80%+ of your OS updated within 6 months this isn't so much of a problem.

It's interesting to note the unprecedented success Apple has achieved at keeping millions of its users at the very leading edge of Apple OS technologies along with its "difficulties" keeping up with new Web technologies. And it's amazing how rapidly they are able to invent a whole new programming language, compiler, toolchain, overhaul the OS APIs, add new OS features, and innovate Apple-only "native" technologies on…

I don't think you realize this, but Chrome on the App Store is actually just a shell with the Chrome UI around the embedded Safari browser, rather than the actual Chrome browser, due to Apple restrictions.

Stated more plainly: http://www.howtogeek.com/184283/why-third-party-browsers-wil...

I must say this fact makes reading your last sentence quite humorous.

Re: Apple is hiring engineers to bring WebRTC to Safari

#67

Post by masklinn »

esailija wrote: post #61
coldtea wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no background sync, proper offline, no notifications, no (usable) indexeddb, no rtc, no file system, no media sinks, no media sessions ... these are from the top of my head. So, more or less just like with the desktop web. What you describe is not web apps, it's some proprietary hybrid mix allowed inside Safari with hooks to the whole OS.

No, those are web standards implemented by other browsers like Chrome, Firefox and Edge.

That's more than a little misleading:

* background sync is not a web standard, it's experimental chrome tech (though it's been submitted to the WICG)

* I can only assume "proper offline" refers to service workers which is a WD with partial support (in the browsers in which it's implemented, which exclude Edge and webkit), webkit has it listed as "under consideration" and the last spec revision landed around the time of the last major safari update (mid-2015)

* notifications is fair, note that desktop Safari supports and that there's almost no mobile support at this point (also not supported yet in Edge)

* indexeddb is fair wrt current standards, but does not support "apple hates webapps" considering safari supports websql

* rtc is fair, and in development

* filesystem is proprietary chrome tech, dropped from standard track

* media sinks is fair, a WD with incomplete support on chrome

* media session is in development everywhere except edge

All in all, as far as conspiracy theories your comments mostly support you being a chrome shill.

Re: Apple is hiring engineers to bring WebRTC to Safari

#68

Post by masklinn »

cmelbye wrote: post #10
cpncrunch wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a reference for that? According to wikipedia, iOS safari is updated with iOS updates. Also, Safari isn't in the App Store.

You're correct about iOS. For OS X, open App Store and then Updates. You'll see individual Safari updates (separate from OS updates) in the update history.

For the most part these are minor updates, the major stuff with new features comes with the yearly OS release.

Re: Apple is hiring engineers to bring WebRTC to Safari

#70

Post by esailija »

masklinn wrote: post #67
esailija wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, those are web standards implemented by other browsers like Chrome, Firefox and Edge.

That's more than a little misleading: * background sync is not a web standard, it's experimental chrome tech (though it's been submitted to the WICG) * I can only assume "proper offline" refers to service workers which is a WD with partial support (in the browsers in which it's implemented, which exclude Edge and webkit), webkit has it listed as "under consideration" and the last spec revision landed around the time…

There are probably hundreds of new APIs that have come after 2012 or whatever the year was when the ball was dropped. Those were just "from the top of my head" not something to be nit picked.

I didn't also literally mean that they are currently implemented by all of those browsers today. My point is that I expect them to be implemented browsers other than Safari sooner or later as they have strongly signaled. Safari has not signaled anything about them. Or if they have, provide evidence of it and I will apologize.

> filesystem is proprietary chrome tech, dropped from standard track

That's not the file system API I am even referring to. I am referring to https://w3c.github.io/filesystem-api/ which is edited by Mozilla.

> rtc is fair, and in development

For iOS Safari? WebKit having WebRTC is completely different from iOS safari having it.

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