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Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

washingtonpost.com

141–147 of 147 posts

Re: Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

#141
post #137
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rice is a good source of protein and a staple food in many parts of the world, but it is not a complete protein: it does not contain all of the essential amino acids in sufficient amounts for good health, and should be combined with other sources of protein, such as nuts, seeds, beans, fish, or meat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice

I wrote that too quickly. Brown rice has sufficient variety of protein so a person can survive on diet of rice and juices for many months, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_diet

Every time you add another comment you modify the proposed diet....

But anyway, key points on the rice diet:

> patients were hospitalized for several weeks at the beginning of treatment.

This was a diet specifically created for people who were otherwise going to die. It was never promoted as a healthy diet for normal individuals.

> white rice, sugar, fruit, fruit juices, vitamins and iron

So not just rice. Not just rice and fruit juice. But also whole fruit plus vitamins and iron to account for the fact that just eating rice will kill you.

Also, not brown rice at all. You're just pulling in random stuff to try to support your wild claims.

> Kempner described his diet as "a monotonous and tasteless diet which would never become popular.... Kempner's only defense of its use was the fact that “it works,” and that the diet was preferable to the alternative of certain death"

Sounds like a great endorsement of the diet from its creator.

Re: Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

#142
post #93
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sugar water tastes horrible. I'd have to be literally starving before I'd choose sugar water over plain water. This doesn't mean that it's impossible to overconsume. It just means that no one wants to consume this. I'd probably lose weight drinking sugar water because it would kill my appetite by inducing nausea. The same applies to your starch comment. Yeah, it's hard to overconsume plain rice if you eat it with no…

With no negative impacts on health one can eat just rice or potatoes with salt or herbs as one please for months with no weight gain unless one is rather lean. That shows that there is food where body feedback loop works nicely preventing over-consumption without any conscious limits on the amount of food.

This is not true. If you only eat potatoes, you will wind up deficient in B vitamins. It doesn't take much to make potatoes a good basis for a diet. This is why the Irish Potato Famine was a big deal: Large families with small farms were mostly growing potatoes to keep everyone fed. But, no, you cannot live on potatoes alone with just salt or herbs without ending up deficient.

Re: Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

#143
post #127
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And there are studies that show walking is just as good, I'm not sure I've ever actually seen one of these studies that show walking is as good for overall health as strenuous exercise. It's hard for me to believe, mostly because I do a ton of walking and find personally that the benefits are nowhere close. But also, "walking is just as good" seems mostly to be the rallying cry of out of shape people who don't want…

That's an odd way to put it. Exercise doesn't "wear down the body". Running puts tremendous stress on knees and feet. I've not been able to run since I was in my 30's due to my knees just not being able to take it anymore. (I'm not overweight.) In fact, I walk 4+ miles a day, much up and down hills, and just that has pushed my feet pretty hard. About 5 years ago I had to switch to MBT's because I was essentially unab…

> Running puts tremendous stress on knees and feet.

Of course it does. That doesn't mean it "wears down" the body in a meaningful sense. The body heals. Bones get stronger with use. So do muscles. Even connective tissue gets stronger with use. Cartilage might not (I'm not sure) but heals. It doesn't just grind down from use, or professional runners would all have severe arthritis at 25. Sedentary people still get arthritis.

> About 5 years ago I had to switch to MBT's because I was essentially unable to walk in regular shoes

I'm not sure you're a representative sample. It's not normal to be unable to walk in regular shoes unless you're elderly.

Re: Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

#144
post #138
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in China on average have been eating eat more calories than in US yet stay definitely thinner.

I do see the connection between that and the ongoing discussion, but it's subtle and mostly caused by my careless use of terms. Let me fix it a little: the diet of our ancestors was mostly "slow" carbs and a modest amount of proteins, except if you have rich ancestors, that's it. Now there are cheap proteins and a lot of refined carbs that are the equivalent to a nuke for metabolism. So I should have said that heart…

Yes - modern Western diet is much closer to what pharaohs with all their deceases have eaten, rather than what a typical person experienced, say, 100 years ago.

Re: Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

#145
post #141
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote that too quickly. Brown rice has sufficient variety of protein so a person can survive on diet of rice and juices for many months, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_diet

Every time you add another comment you modify the proposed diet.... But anyway, key points on the rice diet: > patients were hospitalized for several weeks at the beginning of treatment. This was a diet specifically created for people who were otherwise going to die. It was never promoted as a healthy diet for normal individuals. > white rice, sugar, fruit, fruit juices, vitamins and iron So not just rice. Not just r…

I do not propose a diet (and I should not diverged into the health - that was a mistake indeed). What is important is that with potato, rice and other starchy food without added oil one does not need to consciously limit the amount consumed while staying on normal weight despite apparently excessive calories.

So the comment that started this thread proposing that people consume too much is not true. It is just that people consume too much of wrong stuff. The solution is to limit bad items so normal body feedback loops work, not the amount of food.

Re: Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

#146
post #140
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you will certainly be aware of what it takes to keep running at that rythm. But that's not neccesarilly what is healthy.

So you accept that regular exercise is useful for understanding the physiological implications of the diet, but you question whether regular exercise is healthy?

No. I believe there is such a thing as excessive exercise, which I feel is what the post was describing. While under and excessive excessive your body will be stressed enough that it should be easy to see the effects of your diet, and so it would be relatively easy to optimize your diet for such a regime. But the diet that such a regime requires is not necessarily optimal (or good) for people with a more reasonable and healthy lifestyle.

Re: Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

#147
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck finding anything high in fats and processed in a modern supermarket. If anything, everything is low fat nowadays. With added fructose of course.

> Good luck finding anything high in fats and processed in a modern supermarket. Er, there's quite a lot of high fat, processed foods in modern supermarkets. Now, they don't put "high fat" on the label, because "high fat" isn't a selling point. but that doesn't change the fact that they are high in fat.

It is a selling point for me, as long as it is animal fat and not hydrogenated vegetable oil.

I'm part of the minority who reads every label.

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