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Harper Lee has died

nytimes.com

71–80 of 176 posts

Re: Harper Lee has died

#71
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one could so thoroughly eviscerate my favorite novel except Malcolm Gladwell. I take his point. His criticism imagines a better hero, one who would righteously proclaim truth. But this is also unfair. Had A.F. done this, he would have lost his stature and surely everything he held precious. This is impossible for most, and it would be unrealistic to write the story in that way. In my view, the work stands strong,…

I don't actually take it as a critique of the novel. To me it makes the novel far deeper, since it portrays a realistic and historically plausible Atticus Finch, in both his virtues and his limitations. It makes the moral of the story more nuanced. And the critique of Atticus Finch I don't even take as some kind of heavy-handed moral judgment. The article's byline isn't "Atticus Finch was a bad person," it's "Atticus…

> Understand what? That her father and the Sheriff have decided to obstruct justice in the name of saving their beloved neighbor the burden of angel-food cake?

to which I reply

> Pirates are evil? The Marines are righteous? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history! Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values! Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right! This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice! [0]

By appealing to "justice", Malcolm Gladwell is making a deontological appeal. But as a consequentialist, I don't find it very convincing. Additionally, the critique reminds me of the Copenhagen Interpretation of Ethics: "Atticus did good, but not optimally good. Therefore, he was worse than Hitler."

Furthermore, I disagree that Atticus's impact on society was limited by his approach. Rather, his impact was inherently limited by the culture. I.e. I suspect that a lot of people imagine "if I had lived in the antebellum south, I'd have been more vocal than MLK jr". But realistically, there's only so much a single person can do to effect change. Almost by definition, the status quo has inertia. So given the circumstances, the "hearts and minds" approach may have very well been the most effective strategy. More than one history teacher has told me that we have to interpret people's behavior within the context of their own time period. This entails that it's misleading to judge the behavior of people from other cultures by modern standards.

(but thanks for sharing the article. It changed the way I think about "to kill a mockingbird" also.)

[0] http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Justice

Re: Harper Lee has died

#72
post #39
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer George R.R. Martin “Bran thought about it. 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?' 'That is the only time a man can be brave,' his father told him.”

Not trying to be some literature snob, but GRRM can't hold a candle to the profound impact Harper Lee has had on American culture as a whole (not to mention that she won a Pulitzer and a Presidential Freedom Medal). It's almost insulting even bringing up a quote from ASOIAF.

[deleted]

Re: Harper Lee has died

#73
post #39
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer George R.R. Martin “Bran thought about it. 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?' 'That is the only time a man can be brave,' his father told him.”

Not trying to be some literature snob, but GRRM can't hold a candle to the profound impact Harper Lee has had on American culture as a whole (not to mention that she won a Pulitzer and a Presidential Freedom Medal). It's almost insulting even bringing up a quote from ASOIAF.

philosophical insight, subversion of macho values, a picture of childish insecurity/fatherly guidance, and dramatic irony for those who know the ideals of the speaker will lead to his death.

all that in 2 lines and you don't think it's great writing.

Re: Harper Lee has died

#74
post #68
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to be some literature snob, but GRRM can't hold a candle to the profound impact Harper Lee has had on American culture as a whole (not to mention that she won a Pulitzer and a Presidential Freedom Medal). It's almost insulting even bringing up a quote from ASOIAF.

You are in fact being a huge literature snob saying that it's insulting to even compare the two. To Kill a Mockingbird was culture changing because it touched on such an important issue to American culture (race relations, etc.), while also being a well written book grounded in the human spirit. It is not objectively better written than ASOIAF, which has surprising depth and a keen understanding of the human spirit i…

To be fair, it was also culture changing because it was required reading for a lot of schoolchildren.

Re: Harper Lee has died

#75

Atticus Finch is maybe the greatest character in American literature. His courage in standing against racial injustice is notable, but the true depth of the character comes from his quiet strength and his unabashed dedication to his family and his fellow man. He's always there for his children, tucking them in at night and encouraging them to be good to each other and their neighbors. He's always ready to impart wisd…

I take it you haven't read "Go Set a Watchman"...

Especially given the extremely shady way in which "Go Set a Watchman" was released, possibly against Harper Lee's desires, it would be fair to say that "Atticus Finch" should refer to the character in "To Kill a Mockingbird."

Re: Harper Lee has died

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not snobby in the slightest. A friend put it best: "George RR Martin is a great storyteller, but he's no great writer"

I think it's a bummer that all the popular fantasy is not the best writing. (I do quite enjoy GRRM and Abercrombie.) Are there any, may lesser known, fantasy that is more literary?

It's historical (medieval) fiction, not fantasy, but Hild (http://www.amazon.com/Hild-Novel-Nicola-Griffith/dp/12500560...) is one of the best written books I've read.

edit: Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norell is up there http://www.amazon.com/Jonathan-Strange-Mr-Norrell-Novel/dp/0...

I find J G Keely's judgement aligned to my own: http://starsbeetlesandfools.blogspot.com/2012/06/suggested-r...

Re: Harper Lee has died

#77
post #45

Nothing blew my mind in the last few years like discovering how close Harper Lee and Truman Capote were, as they were both authors I idolized at different stages of my life. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/10/books/harper-lee-and-truma... And that Dill was partially based on her childhod friendship with Capote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harper_Lee#Early_life This seems to be well established now in pop culture and…

Oh wow. I had no idea they were friends. Thank you for posting this article.

Re: Harper Lee has died

#78
post #25

I loved "To Kill a Mockingbird" so much when I read it as a kid. The moral of the story seemed really obvious. In the last few years I came across this article which blew my mind and changed my perspective about the book's meaning a lot: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/08/10/the-courthouse-...

No one could so thoroughly eviscerate my favorite novel except Malcolm Gladwell. I take his point. His criticism imagines a better hero, one who would righteously proclaim truth. But this is also unfair. Had A.F. done this, he would have lost his stature and surely everything he held precious. This is impossible for most, and it would be unrealistic to write the story in that way. In my view, the work stands strong,…

I'm not sure I understand what Gladwell is getting at. The point of TKAM isn't to put Atticus Finch on a pedestal -- it's to paint a portrait of southern society in the 1930's. At this Harper Lee undoubtedly excels, to the extent that she reveals the prejudice of well-meaning men as well as racists. It's easy to criticize racism -- plenty of writers in the 30's did it. It's much harder to accurately pinpoint the flaws of well-meaning non-racists, and that's what makes TKAM an absolute jewel.

If Gladwell's point is that people are interpreting TKAM incorrectly, then I suppose I agree, but that's not what I'm getting out of this essay. What I'm getting is the distinct feeling that Gladwell wants to criticize Lee for pushing some sort of agenda... which is, well, bizarre.

Re: Harper Lee has died

#80
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one could so thoroughly eviscerate my favorite novel except Malcolm Gladwell. I take his point. His criticism imagines a better hero, one who would righteously proclaim truth. But this is also unfair. Had A.F. done this, he would have lost his stature and surely everything he held precious. This is impossible for most, and it would be unrealistic to write the story in that way. In my view, the work stands strong,…

I don't actually take it as a critique of the novel. To me it makes the novel far deeper, since it portrays a realistic and historically plausible Atticus Finch, in both his virtues and his limitations. It makes the moral of the story more nuanced. And the critique of Atticus Finch I don't even take as some kind of heavy-handed moral judgment. The article's byline isn't "Atticus Finch was a bad person," it's "Atticus…

I agree with this; nothing I wrote is intended to contradict that or dispute it, didn't mean to convey it as such. Thanks for the link, it was very interesting.
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