Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Meditation Changes the Brain and Body

well.blogs.nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 208 posts

Re: How Meditation Changes the Brain and Body

#121

Post by awl130 »

2009: 1 hr

2010: 30 min

2011-2014: 10 min

2015-present: 0-10 min

these are my daily averages. i have one rule: before I go to bed, I must assume the lotus position on the floor in front of my bed.

2015 was particularly a challenging year for me (startup problems), and it was all i could do to even assume the lotus position for a second. so for much of 2015 i really didn't meditate, which was ironically when i probably needed it the most. such is my life.

it takes around 4 minutes for me to reach what i call stage 1. this is when all the normal chatter in your mind ceases and your breathing is synced (i've also noticed that it takes around 40 breaths, which is roughly 4 min, so sometimes for shits and giggles i just count to 40). after much trial and error i've noticed i don't even need to do anything; it's the mere passage of 4 minutes that gets me to stage 1.

thereafter is when the real effort begins. it is a constant effort to reach what i call stage 2, or what i consider the beginning of true mindfulness, which means you are neither thinking of the past nor the future. i would say i only enter stage 2 at seconds at a time, only to fall out again into stage 1 (usually by an intruding thought, and that thought is usually "oh, i've got it!").

to be honest, i don't know what the effects have been for me. i seriously don't feel any different. anyway, how are we to separate the effects of meditation with the normal process of maturation or aging? am i getting calmer because of meditation or because i am getting older?

i take it on faith. faith in data and science. our personal experience with meditation cannot be the guide with which we measure it's effectiveness, because subjective experience is exactly that. i liken it to flossing. i floss my teeth every day but still have worse gum recession than those who do not. my periodontist and dentist chalk it up to genetics, because that is the best they can conjecture based on the current science. we can measure flossing easily; without a brain scanner in our basement we cannot so measure effects of meditation. so from the research i take it on faith that the effects must be beneficial on my brain.

Re: How Meditation Changes the Brain and Body

#122

Post by astrostl »

erdojo wrote: post #18

There is also a growing body of evidence that for some people mindfulness and meditation can cause intense and lasting anxiety and exacerbate depression. (Just one of several recent stories on the subject: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/jan/23/is-mindf... ) That has been my experience. I've done meditation retreats and the like. I do find it slows down my mind, but can also surface things that frankly I…

I imagine this phenomenon generally has less to do with meditation/mindfulness, and more to do with Relaxation-Induced Anxiety: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22relaxation-induced+anxiety%22 . Which is its own problem, with its own treatments. Like in programming, reliable reproduction is at least half the battle in solving a bug.

Re: How Meditation Changes the Brain and Body

#123

Post by brahmwg »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #115

Just a small note, you don't have to do nothing to practice mindfulness, I do it all the time while driving, walking, or doing anything that I have on "autopilot". All you need to do is be non-reactive; when you experience something (including a spontaneous thought), stop your mind from automatically pulling up associated thoughts and memories. I find it helpful to remember that the sentient fraction of matter in the…

Totally agree, especially with the grattitutde aspect for existing. In my experience, getting into 'the zone' while running, hiking or bouldering is what I consider my meditation. Treadmill running doesn't cut it, it's got to be outdoors where my brain is stimulated by all the natural colors, sounds and patterns. It's a far cry from what alot of people think of when they think meditation (sitting quietly doing nothing). When running trails or climbing, its hard to be distracted by other thoughts, and the mind is clear but focused intently on the next step or move. For others curious to try meditation, I recommend trying minimalist running, or any activity which brings you closer to nature and your own body.

Re: How Meditation Changes the Brain and Body

#124

Post by astrostl »

astrostl wrote: post #122
erdojo wrote: post #18

There is also a growing body of evidence that for some people mindfulness and meditation can cause intense and lasting anxiety and exacerbate depression. (Just one of several recent stories on the subject: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/jan/23/is-mindf... ) That has been my experience. I've done meditation retreats and the like. I do find it slows down my mind, but can also surface things that frankly I…

I imagine this phenomenon generally has less to do with meditation/mindfulness, and more to do with Relaxation-Induced Anxiety: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22relaxation-induced+anxiety%22 . Which is its own problem, with its own treatments. Like in programming, reliable reproduction is at least half the battle in solving a bug.

Upon re-reading the OP, let me stress: generally. As in, various reports and articles about meditation triggering anxiety and/or panic. I am by no means e-diagnosing or responding to anyone in particular! Just noting that Relaxation-Induced Anxiety is a real and treatable problem, and that it would make sense for meditation to be a reliable trigger for it.

Re: How Meditation Changes the Brain and Body

#125

Post by b6 »

Scarblac wrote: post #106
suprfnk wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is this Zen proverb that goes like this: "You should sit in meditation for twenty minutes every day -- unless you're too busy. Then you should sit for an hour." While I don't think it's necessary to sit an hour every day, it does inspire me. In my experience, if you meditate every day for a few weeks/months, you will start feeling more 'grounded'. You'll be more calm in most situations. You will be chasing exte…

I know the proverb. Zen is a form of Buddhism. Buddhism is interesting and many of the things is says are wise, but ultimately it sees life as suffering and its aim is to reduce suffering. As interesting as it is, I come from a culture that is too different. No matter how futile it ultimately is, I want to _achieve things_. Being at peace with life feels good but is ultimately not enough.

> I want to _achieve things_

It's true, the Buddha taught the cessation of suffering. But he said to do it by really understanding what's going on. You can achieve things either way. But you might choose to achieve different things if you have more insight into the nature of reality.

Re: How Meditation Changes the Brain and Body

#126

Post by ca98am79 »

I have/had pretty bad panic disorder. There were times I panicked all night and didn't sleep at all. I also wouldn't leave the house, and ended up at the emergency room a few times. I tried therapy, medication, etc.. Meditation is the only thing that worked. It has really helped me in many other ways, also.

In case no one else has recommended it yet - I highly recommend a 10-day Vipassana meditation course: https://www.dhamma.org

They are free and not affiliated with any religious organization. But be warned - it isn't easy! I like to call it "meditation boot camp." It breaks you down, but you grow and learn from the experience. It really is one thing you can try that can have a significant impact on your life and change its course. It is a unique experience - you can't read or write or speak for 10 days.

Re: How Meditation Changes the Brain and Body

#127

Post by cylinder »

Scarblac wrote: post #40
personjerry wrote: post #14

For those of you who consider meditation a bunch of mumbo-jumbo, I get it, for I felt (and sometimes still feel) the same way. But let me try to phrase meditation in the terms I understand it as. We often find ourselves in stressful or difficult situations, we are constantly bombarded by external worries, and we think it is difficult to deal with our problems. However, no matter how big external issues are, the way t…

I don't consider it mumbo-jumbo. But I feel it doesn't fit well with my Western mindset: it costs a lot of time, and is that really the best way to spend that time? I'd rather go out and walk, and think about problems I want to solve. Or use the time to get something done.

It's not the time aspect. It's that being type B is already a liability enough in corporate America. Making myself even further away from the "type A" end of the spectrum would harm my career even more. Sad.

Re: How Meditation Changes the Brain and Body

#129

Post by foobarqux »

manuelflara wrote: post #69
yoodenvranx wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you happen to have a good link to a jump-start article about meditation. I am in a sinilar situation as you, life is gray, anxiety problems, ... How should I start doing this today (and the next 4 weeks) without doing too much initial research?

I suggest you start with HeadSpace, it's an app with zero spirituality or religion, and IMO killer content (if I'm not mistaken, the voice of the videos is that of the founder himself, who used to be a monk). Most of the content you have to pay for, but it provides the first 10 lessons (for the first 10 days, although you can replay them as much as you want) for free, and I think they're a fantastic, easy way to get…

"Killer content"? I did 5 of the first free sessions and the content was essentially the same each time and the process is probably easier to do on your own once you have learned the 3-4 steps that are repeated. Did I miss something?

Re: How Meditation Changes the Brain and Body

#130

Post by kordless »

yoodenvranx wrote: post #61
westoncb wrote: post #13

I've had serious anxiety issues and meditation has been the only thing to help significantly. I've spent ~1.5 hours/day meditating for the past six months or so, and I've studied meditation literature pretty seriously for about the past year. At least in my case—and I think this isn't so unusual—there is a steep learning curve: for most people there's just not enough reason to stick with it. That said, at this point…

Do you happen to have a good link to a jump-start article about meditation. I am in a sinilar situation as you, life is gray, anxiety problems, ... How should I start doing this today (and the next 4 weeks) without doing too much initial research?

I would recommend to start by listening to Alan Watts for a few days before digging into meditation techniques: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emHAoQGoQic

He's pretty funny and does a good job of covering the rationale behind Taoist practices, which include meditation and mindfulness.

Post reply on HN