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Ask HN: Is it still possible to work in the US as a European?

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Ask HN: Is it still possible to work in the US as a European?

#1

Post by bikeshedding247 »

With the H1B visa situation not getting better any time soon, are there still realistic ways of working as a software engineer in the US (especially the Bay Area) as a European, under the assumption that one is not a “rockstar programmer” (and neither studied nor worked in the US before)?

I’m aware of three ways to get a visa as a European, but each of them seems futile:

- L1: You kind of have to be lucky to find an employer that qualifies for this, or, well, be a Rockstar Programmer™ (and you’ll have to work for them one year outside the US first)

- H1B: Unrealistic, not only because of the cap, but also because of time / effort / risk it takes for the employer

- Diversity Lottery: Well, that’s lottery (chances are not that bad, though)

I find it quite depressing that there’s basically no way that does not involve luck to work in the US as a more “average”, but ambitious, software developer / engineer. I could theoretically work anywhere in Europe, but well, the interesting stuff seems to be happening in the US (I currently work as a digital plumber, putting my university degree to waste).

Re: Ask HN: Is it still possible to work in the US as a European?

#2

Post by gamechangr »

True -

You have outlined the options, but added a half a dose of pessimism.

L1 - you do NOT need to be a "Rockstar" or anything close. You need to be persistent and producing code (Github). It can be average code, but many just want to see that you produce.

H1B -- This is kind of true. It's more true if you are only interested in the Bay area.

I would suggest you try to find a large company to sponsor you in a less than perfect location in the US. Getting to the Bay area as from another US city with a year of demonstrated ability it much, much easier.

Keep trying! You will get it!

Hope that helps.

Re: Ask HN: Is it still possible to work in the US as a European?

#3

Post by aprdm »

gamechangr wrote: post #2

True - You have outlined the options, but added a half a dose of pessimism. L1 - you do NOT need to be a "Rockstar" or anything close. You need to be persistent and producing code (Github). It can be average code, but many just want to see that you produce. H1B -- This is kind of true. It's more true if you are only interested in the Bay area. I would suggest you try to find a large company to sponsor you in a less t…

Why is it easier to get a H1B visa outside of the Bay Area?

Re: Ask HN: Is it still possible to work in the US as a European?

#4

Post by canterburry »

I have seen an increased number of people getting visas based on extraordinary abilities. Some only have a news paper article that someone in their country published and some interesting project they did and that ends up qualifying them for an O-1 visa. You don't have to have a PhD or Nobel laureate to get these.

Re: Ask HN: Is it still possible to work in the US as a European?

#5

Post by justinv »

aprdm wrote: post #3
gamechangr wrote: post #2

True - You have outlined the options, but added a half a dose of pessimism. L1 - you do NOT need to be a "Rockstar" or anything close. You need to be persistent and producing code (Github). It can be average code, but many just want to see that you produce. H1B -- This is kind of true. It's more true if you are only interested in the Bay area. I would suggest you try to find a large company to sponsor you in a less t…

Why is it easier to get a H1B visa outside of the Bay Area?

It's not.

In fact - I would argue that you have an easier shot with Bay Area companies sponsoring you due to capital availability and legal knowledge in the area of H1Bs.

Re: Ask HN: Is it still possible to work in the US as a European?

#6

Post by [deleted] »

canterburry wrote: post #4

I have seen an increased number of people getting visas based on extraordinary abilities. Some only have a news paper article that someone in their country published and some interesting project they did and that ends up qualifying them for an O-1 visa. You don't have to have a PhD or Nobel laureate to get these.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Is it still possible to work in the US as a European?

#7

Post by gamechangr »

aprdm wrote: post #3
gamechangr wrote: post #2

True - You have outlined the options, but added a half a dose of pessimism. L1 - you do NOT need to be a "Rockstar" or anything close. You need to be persistent and producing code (Github). It can be average code, but many just want to see that you produce. H1B -- This is kind of true. It's more true if you are only interested in the Bay area. I would suggest you try to find a large company to sponsor you in a less t…

Why is it easier to get a H1B visa outside of the Bay Area?

Well... I would guess that you misunderstood me. I forget what is "understood", so that's my fault in the communication.

The process to get an H1B visa is the same no matter where you are located.

As you know, the best developers in the world head to the Bay area every year. Comparatively, it's fairly expensive with many companies looking to make as much impact as possible within a short amount of time.

If you're a company taking a chance with the cost of sponsoring and agreeing to a yearly contract for an H1B..where would you want to be?

We'll compare Atlanta and Silicon Valley just for fun. In Silicon Valley you would pay twice as much for salary and be ten times more likely to have your candidate approached (recruited) by competitors. Because of the higher cost of living, you had better be very sure that they have the skills set that you need now and ideally two years later after your company has grown significantly.

If you are in Atlanta, it's half the initial investment. It's less likely that they will be stolen. You can afford to train them (the cost of the senior developer is even less than half of the cost of Bay Area senior developers).

That's more what I meant. Does that make sense?

Re: Ask HN: Is it still possible to work in the US as a European?

#8

Post by gamechangr »

justinv wrote: post #5
aprdm wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it easier to get a H1B visa outside of the Bay Area?

It's not. In fact - I would argue that you have an easier shot with Bay Area companies sponsoring you due to capital availability and legal knowledge in the area of H1Bs.

I understand that thought process.

For clarity, you think it would be easier to get a H1B sponsor in the Bay area than the rest of the country combined?

If so, I'm interested to know what you think as far as experience. Would you think someone with 1-5 years experience (or 5-10 years experience) would have an easier time getting a H1B visa in the Bay area than other places -- say Austin or Boulder?

Thanks for the feedback

Re: Ask HN: Is it still possible to work in the US as a European?

#9

Post by ones_and_zeros »

Lots of companies are getting around the H1B cap by setting up satellite offices at universities, since they are cap exempt. You are an employee of the university but all work is directed and owned by the company. Universities pay you out of a grant, which looks good for deans etc. and they take a cut.

Downside is you are typically in the "academic" pay scale, which is significantly lower than typical H1B industry software engineer pay scales. But then again scores of H1B discount themselves because they value so highly being on US soil, so it may not look like so much of a discount to you.

CUNY is doing a program with an entrepreneurship bend, but the sponsors of the program have come right out and said it's a loophole around the cap to get engineers.

I'd think this loophole would be closed but with the overwhelming support for expanding the H1B program I don't think that'll be the case no matter who ends up as POTUS or which party is in control of Congress.

Re: Ask HN: Is it still possible to work in the US as a European?

#10

Post by justinv »

gamechangr wrote: post #8
justinv wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. In fact - I would argue that you have an easier shot with Bay Area companies sponsoring you due to capital availability and legal knowledge in the area of H1Bs.

I understand that thought process. For clarity, you think it would be easier to get a H1B sponsor in the Bay area than the rest of the country combined? If so, I'm interested to know what you think as far as experience. Would you think someone with 1-5 years experience (or 5-10 years experience) would have an easier time getting a H1B visa in the Bay area than other places -- say Austin or Boulder? Thanks for the fee…

Not necessarily combined - just that there is more experience in the Bay Area (with larger tech companies there, higher demand for devs, etc-) vs an area that isn't as starved for engineers. Obviously SV vs Atlanta is different than SV vs NYC which is different than SV vs all of the rest of the country.

If you're a company in, say, Atlanta or Boulder, and you need an engineer - there isn't as much competition as there is in the Bay Area. Therefore, it's more likely that you'll find an American engineer at the same price point (which is cheaper [due to legal costs] and less risky than an H1B), so there is little reason to go the extra mile and file an H1B - unless you really need that specific engineer/talent.

Whereas, if you go to the Bay Area, if the demand for engineers outweighs the supply (which I imagine it does), then it's more likely a company will file for an H1B for someone since it's a way of increasing the supply of engineers. The additional capital and legal knowledge (for smaller companies like startups) further spurs the willingness to try for an H1B.

From your response to the other poster - the one thing I would add is that the switching costs for someone on an H1B are higher than those that are not on H1Bs since you always have to have a company sponsor you (this isn't a difficult process, but if you are switching jobs I believe you have to have a company file a petition to sponsor you prior to you leaving your old company). That switching cost is sort of a way of retaining talent (obviously if someone wants to leave, they'll leave - but for those on the fence, they may not bother).

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