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Ask HN: Your thoughts about online developer recruitment tools like HackerRank?

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Re: Ask HN: Your thoughts about online developer recruitment tools like HackerRank?

#51
post #13
post #3

In my opinion they test the wrong things for the majority of software developers. Most people who write code don't need the ability to solve especially hard algorithmic problems. Ranking solutions to hard problems is probably useful if you're Google but there aren't many Googles out there. We like to think that we're solving hard problems (and actually, on HN, we're more likely to be), but most companies aren't. A la…

You are right that the biggest part of the job is easy - but testing the easy parts is useless - all programmers would pass it. A test must be hard in some way if it is to filter people. Disclaimer: I have a stake in https://codility.com/

I think focusing on algorithms (if that's what you're suggesting) would be tunnel vision, and as a result the output of such a system will be much more weakly correlated with productivity than it should be.

Beyond code literacy, the most valuable skills for a 99% of programming roles are empathy and diligence. Unless you're working on the kind of programming that's arguably pure mathematics, algorithms are just not important.

There are plenty of ways to test diligence; empathy is a little harder to test directly but there are reasonable proxies.

Disclaimer: I'm working on a product for applicant filtering (generic rather than coder-specific) https://www.beapplied.com/

Re: Ask HN: Your thoughts about online developer recruitment tools like HackerRank?

#52
post #3

In my opinion they test the wrong things for the majority of software developers. Most people who write code don't need the ability to solve especially hard algorithmic problems. Ranking solutions to hard problems is probably useful if you're Google but there aren't many Googles out there. We like to think that we're solving hard problems (and actually, on HN, we're more likely to be), but most companies aren't. A la…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Your thoughts about online developer recruitment tools like HackerRank?

#53
I've been in the industry a while and if a company/recruiter uses tools like HackerRank for recruitment, I simply ignore them and decide not to move forward. I think we as a software industry have been following a bad hiring practice. If you can't tell your fellow colleague is smart enough by having a tech-talk or giving something that's not a test-format, there is something wrong with the process or people doing the hiring. Also, it is hilarious how many times an engineer has to prove himself/herself, and after being hired at these places I've also seen that the people who do the hiring are not that good/competent themselves, although this may vary in some other place.

Re: Ask HN: Your thoughts about online developer recruitment tools like HackerRank?

#54

I think these tools underestimate the impact stress has on coders. I would dare to say more than 30% of ability can be impacted. Since coders rarely write code under extreme stress unless they work for stock market apps I don't see the point of having such a huge confounder.

(Disclaimer: I have a stake in https://www.kattis.com/)

Not all of "these tools" use stress as part of the evaluation. Kattis is one example that allow candidates unlimited amount of time. However it should be noted I think it's possible to increase the time using these other tools up to some max limit.

Re: Ask HN: Your thoughts about online developer recruitment tools like HackerRank?

#55
post #12

"Programming competitions correlate negatively with being good on the job" see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9324209 for the more nuanced actual result.

(Disclaimer: I have a stake in https://www.kattis.com/)

Solving a programming challenge is not the same as winning the ICPC. And that is what a lot of people here are saying it matters how you use these tools. If you ask developers to solve the very hardest challenges used during the ICPC you are probably going to waste their time and you might miss out on candidates who would have done a good job even if they couldn't solve that challenge. But being asked to have a basic understanding of algorithms, which is what is needed to solve the average challenges, is something that I think should be taken for granted whatever position you are applying to.

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