Renaming Iceweasel to Firefox • Hacker News Board

Re: Renaming Iceweasel to Firefox

#151

Post by TheCoelacanth » Thu, Feb 18, 2016, 1:48 PM UTC

greggarious wrote: post #149

txutxu wrote: post #88

People, This is great news for few of us. But it has been hard to read trough this comments and realize how much ignorance about what Debian is, how it works, what the Debian bug tracker is, what a voluntary-based project is, and to read some assertions and prepotency around in HN If you see ANYTHING wrong with Debian, go fix it, or shut up and go to sell your stuff to another one. Debian is not a startup. Debian is…

As a usability expert, I can tell you that: "If you see ANYTHING wrong with Debian, go fix it, or shut up and go to sell your stuff to another one." is why it will NEVER be the year of Debian on the desktop. Users use computers to compute - "using linux" is not a primary task. I'm not saying open source should compromise on their core values, but Debian could stand to take a page out of, say, the Tor Project's book a…

There already is a usability focused Debian. It's called "Ubuntu".

And I don't mean that metaphorically. Ubuntu literally is Debian with usability enhancements.

Re: Renaming Iceweasel to Firefox

#152

Post by JeremyNT » Thu, Feb 18, 2016, 3:10 PM UTC

greggarious wrote: post #149

txutxu wrote: post #88

People, This is great news for few of us. But it has been hard to read trough this comments and realize how much ignorance about what Debian is, how it works, what the Debian bug tracker is, what a voluntary-based project is, and to read some assertions and prepotency around in HN If you see ANYTHING wrong with Debian, go fix it, or shut up and go to sell your stuff to another one. Debian is not a startup. Debian is…

As a usability expert, I can tell you that: "If you see ANYTHING wrong with Debian, go fix it, or shut up and go to sell your stuff to another one." is why it will NEVER be the year of Debian on the desktop. Users use computers to compute - "using linux" is not a primary task. I'm not saying open source should compromise on their core values, but Debian could stand to take a page out of, say, the Tor Project's book a…

Keep in mind the target audience of txutxu's post: this is Hacker News! His reply is to a group of people who are, if not all experts in technology related fields, likely capable of contributing to the Debian project in some meaningful way.

Debian is an amazing project that is where it is because so many people decided to "go fix it." Not everybody who uses Debian needs to have that mentality, but anybody on HN who is complaining about the project and wants to see it improved should consider translating that opinion into action.

This isn't to say that txutxu worded his response in the most tactful manner, of course, but you have to consider it in context.

Re: Renaming Iceweasel to Firefox

#153

Post by jimmaswell » Thu, Feb 18, 2016, 4:24 PM UTC

shmerl wrote: post #58

moron4hire wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what you are saying, but it doesn't make sense. It sounds like a really bad way to do software development.

What's the alternative? If you will try installing random stuff you'll get dependencies hell. Another extreme is self contained software, when each application bundles its own dependencies. Android does that more or less. But such approach causes major bloat and also increases security risks because you need to patch each application and its dependencies (which are duplicated in the multiple variants) once vulnerabil…

The bloat from self-contained software really isn't that much. It doesn't cause a space problem even on the small amount of space on an Android device.

Re: Renaming Iceweasel to Firefox

#154

Post by shmerl » Thu, Feb 18, 2016, 6:13 PM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #153

shmerl wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the alternative? If you will try installing random stuff you'll get dependencies hell. Another extreme is self contained software, when each application bundles its own dependencies. Android does that more or less. But such approach causes major bloat and also increases security risks because you need to patch each application and its dependencies (which are duplicated in the multiple variants) once vulnerabil…

The bloat from self-contained software really isn't that much. It doesn't cause a space problem even on the small amount of space on an Android device.

It depends on how many dependencies we are talking about. And more than bloat, security issues are critical.

Re: Renaming Iceweasel to Firefox

#155

Post by coldpie » Fri, Feb 19, 2016, 2:04 PM UTC

voltagex_ wrote: post #122

coldpie wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but I would like to add that if you become aware of a program that used to work, but no longer does, PLEASE file a bug! We take regressions very seriously[1]. There are often reasons they can't be fixed immediately, but more often we can fix it quickly. But we have to know about it first! [1] We even have an explicit regression tracker that places blame and shame on whoever br…

I'd love to report more stuff in Wine but isn't there a requirement to be running the latest/dev branch? This is tricky to do in Debian (because I prefer to build debs of whatever and then install those).

You will be asked to test it in the latest release, yes, but perhaps someone else can test it for you, or at least get developer eyes on the issue. In any case, it's unlikely to be just closed invalid without any consideration. We would rather know about it than not.