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Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

nytimes.com

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Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#41

Post by mcintyre1994 »

keehun wrote: post #25
zoul wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t the modern Android phones with Trusted Execution Environment do about the same?

I think what gtrubetskoy is talking about is Google (namely: search, Gmail, calendar, contacts, Plus--which are all tied to your Google account) and Facebook (namely: relationships, posting content, private messages, what you look at, etc) is information which is then mined or allowed to be targeted by advertisers for a handsome profit. Apple doesn't do that. Their iAds are nothing in comparison to Google/FB's data m…

> The only thing you get to go off of is the Advertising Identifier and the user can change/reset that at any moment effectively not tying them to any specific targeting.

People say this a lot, but Apple disagree: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205223

Highlights: name, address, age, iTunes/app etc. purchases, offers in Wallet, news read.

There is an opt out of those ("Limit ad tracking") but by default Apple will target on those things.

Probably semi-irrelevant because of Apple stepping away from iAd but Apple clearly use the Apple ID to target advertising.

Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#42

Post by PeCaN »

ignoramous wrote: post #37
gtrubetskoy wrote: post #3

What sets Apple apart from Googles and Facebooks is that it's the only company that stores the data in way that Apple itself cannot read it. This is why the others have little to say on the subject - there is no issue of a "backdoor", because there is no wall to begin with when it comes to Google or FB, their business model depends on reading and analyzing your emails and posts.

This just made me realise that Apple is a true "do no evil" company and not Google, for all its technology powress and fancy marketing. A sad realisation as I have been using Google products for almost everything-- they pitch up everything under the F/OSS banner and it's so tempting. I think I should consider moving to iOS pretty seriously. I had been dismissing it for being over-priced and not being OSS. But the tru…

I feel the same way. I don't actually like iOS that much, and historically I haven't liked Apple for their human rights issues, but seeing that they relatively consistently take a stand on privacy is making me consider switching.

I don't mind the extra cost that much if I can be assured that the phone is the actual product the company is making money from—not by selling ads targeting me.

The problem is that Android phones are so much better now (IMO of course). :/

Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#43

Post by vinceguidry »

mintplant wrote: post #33
vinceguidry wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, that's a laugh. If it were an Android phone, the feds wouldn't have had to call anyone. They'd have just broken the device's security and gotten what they wanted. Only Apple takes security seriously .

I would wager that the FBI and CIA are technically capable of breaking the security on this phone. This is likely more about setting legal precedent via a case that is very much in the public eye.

I very much doubt that. These agencies are very capable of operating outside of the law if it will get the job done. All a stunt like this does is raise public awareness, limiting their options. They wouldn't do that unless they couldn't get it done via other means.

Only the fact that this is a terror case makes them willing to roll the dice at all on the craps table of public opinion. It gives them an advantage, but not an overwhelming one.

Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#44

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

digi_owl wrote: post #36

Wonder what the NYT's headline would be if it was Google that has gone out strongly.

Google doesn't care. They're the "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear, and you better not fear advertisers, because we just told them all about you" crowd.

Few years back Cornell University adopted Gmail for their staff and faculty under the condition that the company wouldn't data-mine the emails. Google did anyway. Now we use Outlook.

Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#45

Post by mixmastamyk »

davidamarquis wrote: post #22
vinceguidry wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, that's a laugh. If it were an Android phone, the feds wouldn't have had to call anyone. They'd have just broken the device's security and gotten what they wanted. Only Apple takes security seriously .

This is a recent development. Apple only started to care about iOS security around 2012 for example.

In a complex system great security takes years of work, it isn't flipped on like a light switch in v1.0. Wasn't the first version of iOS running as the root user?

Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#46

Post by kyrra »

gtrubetskoy wrote: post #3

What sets Apple apart from Googles and Facebooks is that it's the only company that stores the data in way that Apple itself cannot read it. This is why the others have little to say on the subject - there is no issue of a "backdoor", because there is no wall to begin with when it comes to Google or FB, their business model depends on reading and analyzing your emails and posts.

Google's CEO had at least a short response to Apple's letter on twitter.

https://twitter.com/sundarpichai

https://twitter.com/sundarpichai/status/700104298600886272

Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#47

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

amyjess wrote: post #28

John McAfee has posted his response: http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mcafee-ill-decrypt-san-b... As usual for him, it's hyperbolic and over the top. It starts with this... > This is a black day and the beginning of the end of the US as a world power. And snowballs into this: > And why do the best hackers on the planet not work for the FBI? Because the FBI will not hire anyone with a 24-inch purple mohawk, 10-gaug…

Not too far off. Obviously nobody would smoke at work for the same reason they probably wouldn't drink, illegality aside. But, what people do outside of work is their own business. If my boss started seriously inquiring about my vices, first thing I'd do that night is update my resume.

I've considered federal work before but every time I think hard about it, I keep coming back to the scene in Snow Crash where the fed works at a place where every little action - the time you arrive, the time you leave, whether you take the stairs or use electricity by taking the elevator - is scrutinized and judged. Yuck.

Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#48

Post by anjc »

amyjess wrote: post #28

John McAfee has posted his response: http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mcafee-ill-decrypt-san-b... As usual for him, it's hyperbolic and over the top. It starts with this... > This is a black day and the beginning of the end of the US as a world power. And snowballs into this: > And why do the best hackers on the planet not work for the FBI? Because the FBI will not hire anyone with a 24-inch purple mohawk, 10-gaug…

> Yes, McAfee just said that the Chinese and the Russians are hiring people who insist on smoking weed at work.

I'm sure you understand his point.

Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#49

Post by School-Cotton »

gerardnll wrote: post #24
Outdoorsman wrote: post #15

I think it's interesting to note that Apple has complied with requests from law enforcement in the past... Of the total number of requests, which Apple references here: http://www.apple.com/privacy/government-information-requests... > 94% were Device Requests--law enforcement seeking a stolen device > 6% were Account Requests--law enforcement seeking personal information > 27% of U.S. account requests received betwee…

Yeah, that 94%, keep reading the phrase man: The vast majority of the requests Apple receives from law enforcement ->>> come from an agency working on behalf of a customer who has requested assistance locating a stolen device <<---. Read also the guidelines to see which information Apple does give its really interesting and i think they are one of the few companies to be strong regarding user rights.

What makes you think he didn't understand what he wrote?

Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#50

Post by SquareWheel »

herge wrote: post #10
gtrubetskoy wrote: post #3

What sets Apple apart from Googles and Facebooks is that it's the only company that stores the data in way that Apple itself cannot read it. This is why the others have little to say on the subject - there is no issue of a "backdoor", because there is no wall to begin with when it comes to Google or FB, their business model depends on reading and analyzing your emails and posts.

Apple also makes most of it's money by selling phones, not user information...

>Apple also makes most of it's money by selling phones, not user information...

Google is the advertiser. I'm surprised how often people make this mistake. They don't sell user data to other advertisers. This not only goes against their terms of service, but also makes no business sense. Why would they give up their best signal for targeted ads?

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