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SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

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351–360 of 515 posts

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#351
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the solution may be to accept that the city owes a duty to everyone in it's boarders and cannot deport human beings based on circumstance. The city could tax the rich heavily, to the point that a balance is struck that both shelters the poor and dissuades further gentrification.

What makes you think this duty exists? Can any person on earth move to SF and expect this to be fulfilled?

No, because of international borders. But within the USA there is freedom of movement.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#352
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a complex issue... but in my experience, most of the homeless are not looking for help to find jobs and/or contribute to society in manner that will lead them out of "homelessness." A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. Go talk to your local EMS/Fire department personnel and most of them will have similar stories. I know the homeless people in…

The issue my be complex but you don't see the same thing in most of Europe or Canada which suggests it's not immune to government action.

One common government action is to lock up or beat up vagrants.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#353
post #173
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, he's right. But like many a programmer, he just does not have a way with words.

he's not right. his position is that he shouldn't have to 'see' homelessness. he doesn't care if it exists or not, just so long as it's out of his view.

Not having to see homelessness sounds harsh.

But what about not having to dodge shit, piss and uncapped needles on the street? What about not having to be asked for money constantly? What about not having to hear people yelling at the top of their lungs at 3am? What about not having to feel unsafe?

If it were just seeing people being unobtrusively homeless, there would be no problem, even if they were plainly visible. His phrasing may seem harsh to people that aren't not exposed to the situation on a daily basis. But let's try to not look for reasons to be offended in this situation and, instead, search for the meaning behind the words. Because there's a serious problem that needs fixing in San Francisco.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Homeless first" undermines the normal eligibility cycle for public housing. It also destroys the communities in these developments. If you find a man screaming obscenities while taking a dump on the sidewalk distasteful, I'll assure you that the people who get stuck living next to him share your reaction -- except they can't walk away. So you pack housing developments with addicts, crazy people and criminals. Next s…

Also, I would be REALLY pissed if I lived in a town where I had to struggle to make rent on a place I don't own every month, and the city is giving away free permanent houses to folks who don't have jobs or pay rent... I mean, I want homeless people to have homes, but if they're getting one for free and the economy continues to have housing prices way out of the reach of someone like me, I would be fucking pissed.

It already happens. My first apartment was a studio in a new downtown building that, with parking, I paid about 1/2 my monthly income for. Then I met my neighbor, who claimed to have been hurt by a city bus ("they closed the door on my arm"). She had a 2-br place with a terrace, and paid less than half of what I was paying.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#355
post #9

To play devil's advocate, he's right. He shouldn't have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless - the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. That it hasn't is a failure of the local government, and should be addressed. Much of the reason that affordable housing is out of reach of many in San Francisco is due to government regulation, not market capitalism. Ext…

This is a complex issue... but in my experience, most of the homeless are not looking for help to find jobs and/or contribute to society in manner that will lead them out of "homelessness." A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. Go talk to your local EMS/Fire department personnel and most of them will have similar stories. I know the homeless people in…

> that doesn't mean we treat them like sub-humans... we just have less patience with the shit they are inevitably going to give us.

While I have difficulty agreeing that the homeless generally want to be, it seems worth noting that they're not better than normal people, any more than they are worse - they are normal people, with the same charm and/or asshattery as the rest of us. They're just in a situation most of us (or so I think) find singularly undesirable.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hostility is warranted when you think you're solving a problem by whining about it on Medium. We all have homeless problems in our cities. We get accosted by mentally ill people, drunk people, high people, strung out people, dirty people. We smell piss on the street corners. But we don't publish it on the internet because of some grandiose vision that our words will suddenly shine light on the issue and spur some…

There is simply no justification for the level of backlash he is receiving. None. >But we don't publish it on the internet because of some grandiose vision that our words will suddenly shine light on the issue and spur someone to action. Sure, we all just step over the homeless, ignore the problem, and go about our day. Justin expressed his frustration, and guess what we're all talking about now - that uncomfortable…

Yes, that's what it's about: changing the things you're frustrated by. Because the world expects more from the people who build the hardware and software they depend on everyday than some petulant whining. This evisceration is a testament to that. It should be celebrated.

So if you're frustrated, great. Write it in your diary, and then tell us all when you come up with a good solution. But if you have to dehumanize people to get your point across, then yes, to the rest of the world you're just a "tech bro" sitting behind your computer screen who can't handle the realities of human life.

P.S. being offended by the term "tech bro" is like being offended by the word "nerd" or "geek." Come on. We're not being oppressed here.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#357
post #310

The second article from a major media outlet about this guy? Yes, he's inconsiderate, but so what? If it were a blog post from a lawyer or school teacher, would the Post or the Guardian have cared? Would we see articles about a "Law Bro?" The media, collectively, has it in for us. They keep using borderline derogatory labels for us in their articles like "coder" and "techie," and they publish hit pieces like the link…

I would respectfully state that you have it backwards - the real problem is that "techies" are becoming ever more powerful as a group, this power is acknowledged, but we have not evolved an understanding of how to wield that power in the broader society, as have the more established professions like lawyers.

I know of no lawyer, personally, that I think would be capable of writing a blog post as insensitive and lacking in subtlety as the one referenced by this article. They know better. I know plenty of tech people who I think are perfectly capable of doing so.

If we don't learn, and quickly, our reputation will soon be no better than that of Wall Street bankers.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#358
post #310

The second article from a major media outlet about this guy? Yes, he's inconsiderate, but so what? If it were a blog post from a lawyer or school teacher, would the Post or the Guardian have cared? Would we see articles about a "Law Bro?" The media, collectively, has it in for us. They keep using borderline derogatory labels for us in their articles like "coder" and "techie," and they publish hit pieces like the link…

Oh cry me a river. There is a theme evolving, and the media have latched onto it. Are lawyers and school teachers continually writing these self-righteous 'open letters'? Are lawyers and teachers of a growing, sufficient mass in a city that is struggling to serve a great proportion of it's population (for various, complicated reasons)? No.

Life is easier for 'us' than the mentally ill, the addicts, and those with less luck in life. When a self aggrandizing 20 something white guy working in a prosperous industry starts complaining like this, with the intent of attracting attention, it promotes a stereotype of a lack of sensitivity, and compassion for those around us.

Prestige and respect? Earn it, as a person. Compassion is part of that equation. You don't earn it by becoming a programmer or working in tech.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#359
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The political argument against it is "I don't want a single dime of my money going to worthless scumbag lowlifes who are too lazy to get a job" or "anything the government does is by definition wasteful, the private sector needs to handle this problem like all problems" -- the same one that galvanizes the right against welfare, regulations, healthcare, etc. The conservatives we have in the US are so extreme they make…

wrong. conservatives in the states are more than happy to donate to programs that help the homeless and mentally ill, they're consistently the most charitable americans. they do tend not to like taxes and government waste, however. it's a myth that the only way to solve these problems is with government.

> it's a myth that the only way to solve these problems is with government.

Do you have examples of effective non-government solutions? Looking at my own country my impression is that government is far more effective than charities (in America or elsewhere) on this issue.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#360
post #9

To play devil's advocate, he's right. He shouldn't have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless - the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. That it hasn't is a failure of the local government, and should be addressed. Much of the reason that affordable housing is out of reach of many in San Francisco is due to government regulation, not market capitalism. Ext…

The devil doesn't seem to need more help, so maybe you should question your hobbies. That aside, what both you and he miss: the problem with the pain, struggle and despair of homelessness is not a comfortable person having to see it. It is a person having to experience the pain, struggle, and despair of homelessness. As a San Francisco with 5x his tenure, I am entirely proud that SF has not swept the homeless problem…

His post was incredibly tone-deaf, and he comes across as an entitled jerk. That said, there's a big difference between being reminded of other peoples' suffering and being assaulted. Leaning on someone's car, yelling at someone, and interrupting a theater are all acts of aggression. It's understandable that he's upset. Nobody should be subjected to this kind of behavior.

Honestly you come across as kind of callous by not seeming able to empathize with why he might be upset.

Of course saying that just sweeping people away is an acceptable solution is incredibly heartless. That's where he lost my sympathy. At the same time, embracing the status and also kinda heartless. It doesn't help anyone, except for people who are neither living on the street nor being confronted by people living on the street.

People often seem to think we should give the homeless and drug addicts and mentally ill free reign to do whatever they want as some sort of act of kindness. I think that's belittling and infantalizing. Nobody should punished harshly for acting a little obscene in public from time to time, but we should do something so that people actually can get help while also enforcing laws that ensure public space can be shared and enjoyed by everyone.

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