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Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

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Re: Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

#71

Post by nommm-nommm »

brianwawok wrote: post #64
nommm-nommm wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. When I was an athlete I had a horrible diet which consisted of mostly boxed pasta and I ate junk food every day. Didn't hurt my athletic ability noticeably. I try hard to watch what I eat now.

How old were you on the junkfood diet? As I got older I literally cannot sleep at night if I eat crap. As a teenager it did not matter.

I started watching my diet in my 20s. I started doing so because I didn't want to harm myself long term and I started gaining weight. I still go back to my boxed pasta diet once in a while (I grew up on the stuff! I love it!) and it doesn't effect me in a noticeable way. I'm no longer an athlete though.

Actually that is not true, it does effect my poop. I strongly perfer pooping on a veggie rich diet!

Thankfully getting married has helped my diet. My spouse leaves for work for extended periods sometimes which is when my diet usually slips.

Re: Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

#72

Post by brianwawok »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #71
brianwawok wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How old were you on the junkfood diet? As I got older I literally cannot sleep at night if I eat crap. As a teenager it did not matter.

I started watching my diet in my 20s. I started doing so because I didn't want to harm myself long term and I started gaining weight. I still go back to my boxed pasta diet once in a while (I grew up on the stuff! I love it!) and it doesn't effect me in a noticeable way. I'm no longer an athlete though. Actually that is not true, it does effect my poop. I strongly perfer pooping on a veggie rich diet! Thankfully gett…

Boxed pasta is not the worst thing in the world though, it's like a 5/10. You can generally do far worse, say french fries and slushies and Oreos.

Re: Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

#73

Post by e40 »

rsync wrote: post #52
static_noise wrote: post #17

I'm waiting for the day that nutricionists find out that there are different kinds of people with different nutritional needs. Imposing rules on the population on a weak scientific basis harms the people, science and the government in the process. Currently the best way to consume food is to avoid addictive and highly processed food products and then trust your gut with the rest. Eat what you like and avoid what caus…

"Currently the best way to consume food is to avoid addictive and highly processed food products and then trust your gut with the rest." Allow me to suggest a further path forward that is superior to "trusting your gut": Establish a regular, very high output exercise regime - incorporating both long duration aerobic/cardio and relatively intense resistance training. Under such a regimen, you will notice what food doe…

incorporating both long duration aerobic/cardio and relatively intense resistance training

And there are studies that show walking is just as good, and it certainly wears down the body less than your alternative.

Re: Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

#74

Post by kazinator »

If you consciously reduce your salt, it is probably good for your health. This is not necessarily because of the salt, but because reducing your salt intake pretty much requires preparing your own food from unprocessed ingredients, rather than eating out or consuming processed food (whose sodium levels tend to be high, and not controllable by you).

A high sodium intake is widely believed to be unhealthy. Whether that is actually true or not, those who prepare high sodium food basically show that they don't give a shit about health.

Re: Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

#75

Post by chadgeidel »

ocean3 wrote: post #54
static_noise wrote: post #17

I'm waiting for the day that nutricionists find out that there are different kinds of people with different nutritional needs. Imposing rules on the population on a weak scientific basis harms the people, science and the government in the process. Currently the best way to consume food is to avoid addictive and highly processed food products and then trust your gut with the rest. Eat what you like and avoid what caus…

"Use salt to taste, most likely it won't kill you" - but salt has been used for centuries right. Has there been a change? As an Indian not adding salt is unthinkable.

I think the change has been in volume. In the US at least much of the food you take off the shelves (especially of the "microwave dinner" variety) have large amounts of sodium. I know this is an extreme example, but take a look at the sodium content in those popular "ramen noodle bowls" (styrofoam cup, not in a bag). That's more than 100% of your RDA of sodium right there. They do not taste overly salty IMHO.

Re: Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

#76

Post by tremendo »

noxToken wrote: post #57
static_noise wrote: post #17

I'm waiting for the day that nutricionists find out that there are different kinds of people with different nutritional needs. Imposing rules on the population on a weak scientific basis harms the people, science and the government in the process. Currently the best way to consume food is to avoid addictive and highly processed food products and then trust your gut with the rest. Eat what you like and avoid what caus…

> Currently the best way to consume food is to avoid addictive and highly processed food products I assume by highly processed, you mean foods altered in such that they are now high in fats, salt, sugars or some combination thereof. I ask, because the term processed gets thrown around (in my experience) for highly preserved foods like canned meat to flash frozen frozen vegetables in the freezer aisle. The former is o…

This is a good observation. Yogurt for example is now something one buys packaged from a grocery store, after milk was pasteurized and deliberately (re)inoculated with the right mix of bacteria to induce lactic fermentation. This of course can occur naturally, but now we do it in a controlled and safe manner and thus is now a "processed food". Well, of course there are those that come with added "fruit" (not really). Same with Sauerkraut and even originally the curing of meats (Salami, Chorizo, de-hydrated meats, etc).

And that is different from most packaged, canned, boxed, foods which are clearly manufactured as they just wouldn't happen otherwise, in the way that ingredients are mixed and put together with the primary goals of making a product hyper-palatable (it sells), at lower cost and with a long shelf-life (minimizes risks), and only incidentally if at all, with any care for its nutritional value, in which case they throw in whatever fortifications will allow the vendor to claim certain nutritional benefit while not affecting negatively their ability to sell. These tend, as you mention, to just add sugar, fats and salt, in a way that one simply does not find in non-manufactured foods.

As they say, context matters. For example there are many who believe that salt intake by itself is not the problem, instead the optimal ratio of Sodium to Potassium is what becomes problematic. In latter years with all those added salts, Sodium intake has increased, while the lower share of natural foods has also meant a reduced intake of Potassium, throwing us off-balance from what a "normal" body needs.

Re: Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

#77

Post by kazinator »

vzip wrote: post #60

Remove the sugar and starches from your diet, and be physically active. You'll need ample salt, maybe even more than you'd expect.

I eat low sodium, cycle 70 miles a week, run 30, and sweat buckets. I'm fine.

When I go traveling, I end up eating out a lot due to circumstances. The sodium intake bloats up the skin, yowzers! My wedding band gets stuck on my finger, when normally it slides off easily, and I lose a bit of definition. I hate how that looks and feels.

Re: Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

#78

Post by obsurveyor »

_0w8t wrote: post #48
Mikeb85 wrote: post #24

The problem is that salt (and other minerals) is required to live. But we eat too much of everything (including salt). It's not the salt that's killing us, it's the shitty diet, too-large portions, and lack of exercise. If we ate reasonable portions of well-prepared meals the salt wouldn't be a big deal. But no, instead we eat extra large portions of everything, way too much meat, starch, fat and salt, so all these f…

On cannot eat too much starch. Try to eat only potatoes or rice prepared without any oil/butter for couple of weeks with perhaps few vegetables or fruits in addition with any amount of salt or herbs for taste. You learn that it is impossible to overeat as normal appetite controlling signals kicks in and limit the consumed amount. One does not gain weight on such diet and likely even loose some. Similarly with sugar.…

> Try to drink plain water with sugar (not tee/coffee or anything else that bring own taste). It is just impossible to drink too much of it

This is blatantly not true in the US, you can observe any number of people anywhere drinking full sugar sodas all day long.

Re: Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

#79

Post by tgb29 »

jimrandomh wrote: post #46
tgb29 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. I recently cut sugar and bread products and I experienced random dizziness. I was eating plenty of fruit and I was eating natural sugars. I decided to experiment one day; had 4 donuts, bread and butter, and my body felt better. Now the plan is to avoid processed, avoid preservatives, and move towards more natural and organic. I went to the doctor and they said don't wait more than 3-4 hours between meals.

> I went to the doctor and they said don't wait more than 3-4 hours between meals. This is utterly crazy. If you couldn't go more than 3-4 hours between meals without experiencing dizziness, something about your diet was seriously wrong. If you felt better after experimentally eating something different, then eating that was almost certainly healthier. Yes, even if it was donuts. Don't let cultural beliefs about food…

My problem has been that if I stand up to quickly, I have a moment of dizziness. There are many variables; blood pressure, blood sugar, nervous system, altitude etc.

The more aware I am of my diet and how nutrition affects my body, I find the more sensitive I become to changes.

I cut coffee, bread, sugar, and beef/pork. I would eat very nutritious meals, and my energy levels and body felt amazing, but the stand up and be dizzy became more common.

Was I going through withdrawal? Is my body to accustomed to eating these foods? Should my theory be, "sugar and bread is ok as long as I eat other nutritious meals?"

I'm not sure, I'm still experimenting, and I'm utilizing the final month of my insurance with my parents to figure this out.

Re: Scientists can’t agree whether salt is killing us

#80

Post by _0w8t »

suprfnk wrote: post #50
_0w8t wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On cannot eat too much starch. Try to eat only potatoes or rice prepared without any oil/butter for couple of weeks with perhaps few vegetables or fruits in addition with any amount of salt or herbs for taste. You learn that it is impossible to overeat as normal appetite controlling signals kicks in and limit the consumed amount. One does not gain weight on such diet and likely even loose some. Similarly with sugar.…

> So it is not the amount of what is eaten but rather something in food or food composition that makes people overweight. > As regarding exercising consider that doing high-intensity strength training for 15 minutes once per week is often enough to get into shape. So again, it is not the amount but rather the details of the exercise that are important. You make some wild claims here. Do you have anything to back that…

For the starch just search for effects of starch diet. For sugar water, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shangri-La_Diet. For high-intensity training, see www.bodybyscience.net - the blog there links quite a few medical studies about high intensity training. My personal experience or experience of my relatives confirms this.
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