I thought Apple already had backdoors. I feel relieved that my iPhone is not backdoored and I'm also very happy for a company who's products I use daily.
A Message to Our Customers
851–860 of 1001 posts
Re: A Message to Our Customers
#852Earlier quoted context omitted.
Save people like me a trip to the Google: NSL = A national security letter (NSL) is an administrative subpoena issued by the United States federal government to gather information for national security purposes. NSLs do not require prior approval from a judge.
IANAL, but how is it a subpoena if it doesn't originate from the judiciary?
I guess you can argue semantics, but it's an order accompanied by a credible threat of violence if the order is not obeyed.
Re: A Message to Our Customers
#853Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why wold Google and Facebook get behind this? They store their customers data in a way they can access and subsequently have to give it to persecuters when there's a court order Exactly like Apple. Or do you think that the emails in iCloud are not given to the prosecutors?
Not exactly like Apple. Google and Facebook's core competency is using your personal data to sell ads. Apple's core competency is selling you appliances. Yes, they wind up with some personal data because of the services they also provide, but it's far less valuable to them than Google or Facebook.
> They store their customers data in a way they can access and subsequently have to give it to persecuters
What has to do your post with this claim?
Re: A Message to Our Customers
#854What's the potential fallout on this case? I assume Apple is appealing the ruling - what happens if the ruling is upheld and Apple refuses to comply (unlikely IMO, but what if)? Could the DOJ target individual Apple engineers and order them to do it or face contempt of court charges?
Yeah, even if the DOJ ordered Apple the corporation, ultimately they would still have to force one or more Apple engineers to perform the task. That seems messed up. Would the Apple engineer at least have the option to quit?
> Yeah, even if the DOJ ordered Apple the corporation, ultimately they would still have to force one or more Apple engineers to perform the task.
More likely, they would impose consequences against Apple-the-corporation were it not to cause the task to be performed, rather than forcing an Apple engineer to perform the task.
Re: A Message to Our Customers
#855Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would it cause a significant drop? Where would those people go?
They'd go to Android. Apple only has a significant share of mobile users in the USA. Most other countries they are losing (globally they have something like 8% vs Android's 85% market share).
> Most other countries they are losing
Maybe by share of units shipped. By revenue share they dominate, and their margins are estimated to be very good.
Re: A Message to Our Customers
#856Earlier quoted context omitted.
Okay so ignoring the fact that this would be insane from a business perspective. It also doesn't make sense from a game theory perspective, if you're a Good Company that's going to fight on this issue, it makes sense to be in business as long as possible to be a pain in the rear for authoritarian jerks. If every company who was willing to stand up to these guys went out of business immediately after you'd only have p…
It's no longer a business issue, and if it is, then Apple is just posing. Apple's positive affect on our economy, our technology, and even our nation, would make such a line that our government would have to think long and hard about pursing their demands. Imagine if Apple, and the tech community as a whole, stood behind that decision. Of course they won't because they rather be rich than free.
Yes, it would be awesome.
> they rather be rich than free
But don't most people want to be rich so that they can be free?
Re: A Message to Our Customers
#857Earlier quoted context omitted.
"I don't want to be deposed" I'm not familiar with that phrase. What does it mean in this context?
A deposition in the American judicial system is a legal proceeding in which a witness provides testimony to the courts. The witness may be examined by members of either sides legal team. This is a routine proceeding in civil cases. [0] Interestingly, people usually don't want to be deposed when they have something to hide. [0] http://litigation.findlaw.com/filing-a-lawsuit/what-is-a-dep...
> Interestingly, people usually don't want to be deposed when they have something to hide.
You don't need to have done anything wrong to fear a deposition. Go to youtube and watch any number of "do not talk to police" lectures. An innocent person can end up trapping themselves in a lie, or bow to pressure. Or you may say something that you think is harmless but in fact damns you. Depositions should be avoided wherever possible.
Re: A Message to Our Customers
#858Earlier quoted context omitted.
".. what this means is that even Apple can't break into an iPhone with a secure passphrase (10+ characters) and disabled Touch ID - which is hackable with a bit of effort to get your fingerprint." That is not exactly true. They wrote the OS, they designed the phone, they know where the JTAG connectors are. Cracking the phone apart and putting is logic board up on a debugger would likely enable them to bypass security…
> That is not exactly true. They wrote the OS, they designed the phone, they know where the JTAG connectors are. Cracking the phone apart and putting is logic board up on a debugger would likely enable them to bypass security. No, they can't. A quick update to recent hardware practices: modern SoCs like Apple's have something called "Secure Enclave Processor" that's on-die. This is the first thing to start when the c…
> No, they can't. A quick update to recent hardware practices: modern SoCs like Apple's have something called "Secure Enclave Processor" that's on-die.
Yes, they can. The particular phone in question is from before the Secure Enclave Processor
Re: A Message to Our Customers
#859Earlier quoted context omitted.
Save people like me a trip to the Google: NSL = A national security letter (NSL) is an administrative subpoena issued by the United States federal government to gather information for national security purposes. NSLs do not require prior approval from a judge.
IANAL, but how is it a subpoena if it doesn't originate from the judiciary?
Nicholas Merrill famously fought a 11 year legal battle (and finally won) the right to reveal all aspects of a National Security Letter (NSL) served to him. Almost all such letters are accompanied by a complete gag order.
https://www.calyxinstitute.org/news/federal-court-invalidate...
EDITED / CORRECTIONS - Thanks commenters - The battle was won by Nicholas Merrill not Ladar Levison of Lavabit fame as I originally posted.)
Re: A Message to Our Customers
#860Huge props to Apple - here's hoping against hope that Google, Facebook, and Amazon get behind this. One thing I was wondering is how Apple is even able to create a backdoor. It is explained toward the end: "The government would have us remove security features and add new capabilities to the operating system, allowing a passcode to be input electronically. This would make it easier to unlock an iPhone by “brute force…
> here's hoping against hope that Google, Facebook, and Amazon get behind this I would assume that Google, Facebook, and Amazon are already sending every single keystroke we type straight to all the three letter agencies pretty much in real time. (I also assume the same about Apple, so I'm not sure what to make of this open letter.)
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