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The Rise of Renting in the U.S

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Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Updated to: "Make more than you spend and save combined"

Wait, why? Where does the money go that is neither spent nor saved?

Income - savings - spending = 0. If you're spending and saving (combined) more than you're income, that's debt.

Your goal should be to maximize the savings section of the equation, and minimize spending.

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#162
post #64

I've sorta turned my back on the standard american dream. Racing to new areas of growth, working to build someone else's dream, getting paid well immediately for performance, paying high rent, etc to afford the image of success, and making friends that participate in this same high ambition culture. Instead of making markets, markets start making you. All the rules, and "norms" we've collected around ourselves to par…

This is a big generational thing. My brother and I have been there as our parents moved us out to the country to buy a big house, my dad work his life away for a bigco only to be laid off 3 years before his retirement, and now they sit in their house with a lot of stuff and very few hobbies and not much of a social group. We've seen how far striving can take you, and the real cost of the sacrifices you make for possessions. Both of us orient ourselves towards experiences over possessions. He and his wife are joining the peace corps and I am working on my skillset to become a remote contractor so I can travel (while saving up as much as I can living with roommates).

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#163

> In broad strokes, this makes them good for the poor and bad for the rich The stupidity in this comment hurts my soul. Let me ask you this, out of the poor and the rich, which one is more heavily leveraged into assets (using debt).

Poor, because poor people are the only ones to be entirely in debt. Also everyone with a good income that has huge student loans. I think you've become very disconnected from what the lower middle class is like if you think high interest will help them. The average savings account in the US is well under 10k.

Ok, I guess we're doing this. I'll explain the basics of money to start.

Money is a representation of your buying power relative to everyone else. So if everyone's money doubled, no one got richer. It's only when the percentage of buying power changes that anyone is really more or less poor relative to before.

Ok, back to the argument...

>Poor, because poor people are the only ones to be entirely in debt.

Wrong answer. You missed the part where I said leveraged into assets. If you are 50,000 in debt, and I have 50,000 in cash, if the amount of money doubled out there... I'm the same amount rich, but you're less poor than you were! So if that was the end of the story, you'd be right. Poor people get helped out more than the rich. But that's not the end of the story...

Now, let's say that 50k in cash went towards the down payment on a house worth 250k (20%).

Again, to make it easier, we're imagining the amount of money out there doubles. Guess what? My asset just went up to 500k. I was leveraged into the growth. I just made out like a bandit. Are you less poor? Yes, but relative to all of us who bought houses, you just got fucked. (Because of inflation).

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#164

Why are mortgage debtors referred to as home owners? Edit: I was being a bit facetious. With liar loans, no down payment mortgages, deferred interest, "prices only go up," etc, it's been too easy to sell home "ownership" to people without their requisite understanding of the risks involved and the constantly changing market realities. I'm all for personal responsibility but the use of language is powerful.

Why are people getting closer to death every day called living instead of dying?

They're doing both. It's not a contradiction, like between "owning" and "not owning".

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#165

Has anyone released a halfway-decent 'Rate My Landlord' site? Asking for a friend.

In NYC, you can look up your building in the DOH complaint database. This ranges from things like damaged flooring (e.g, broken wood floors, pealing linoleum) to rat/roach/bedbug infestations and many other building violations (such as failure to provide heat in the wintertime). It's not usually complaints like 'my rent is too high and my landlord sucks, argh'. It's more complaints like, 'this building is hazardous to live in.'

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#166

This article is full of "no kidding" like, oh: > In fact, metros with greater shares of renters have higher wages, higher productivity (measured as economic output per capita), and greater concentrations of high-tech firms, according to Mellander’s basic correlation analysis. People are attracted to where the jobs are, and so everything gets bought up and inflated, and the late comers have to rent. In related news, y…

Property taxes should basically kill the dream of "and don't pay a fucking thing to anyone" for anyone that lives in the US. Especially city dwellers. I was surprised to see tax for properties I could technically afford cost more per year than I had been paying in rent.

Yep. You don't own property in the US. You either rent from someone else, or you rent from the government.

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#167
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The basic premise behind that idea is rents are (historically were) cheaper than a mortgage so you could take the mortgage-rent delta, invest that, and generate a return greater than the interest rate on the mortgage and end up ahead. A lot of the mortgage calculators have a 3-5yr inflection point where renting, traditionally, was always cheaper if you planned on staying somewhere for 3-5yrs and moving. The problem i…

> landlords have no problems keeping tenants increasing rent 3-10% year over year. Where are the accompanying income increases coming from? Clearly not W-2 income. What can't continue forever does tend to stop. Or at least what happens on an extremely small scale can't be the case over an extremely large scale. Can't squeeze blood from a stone... Also never forget the cost of home ownership isn't the mortgage, at lea…

They're growing rent until they hit the breaking point that no one will pay. Many of the families in my metro area are 2-parent working families and many of the big corp positions here tend towards mid to senior level or executive positions with the requisite salary and landlords keep pushing the rent up so long as people are willing to continue paying it. For single people, it's common to be cramming 4+ into a single family home (which pushes rent down to In essence, we're a victim of our own success. Back in the day, life revolved around the city center and much of what is the 'burbs now was farm land. Overtime, as more people moved to the area, the cheap real estate was always al little bit further out from the city so people would saddle up and buy a house (with a 20-30 commute as the penalty) for a reasonable price. Over time, companies started building offices in the 'burbs, more people kept moving to the area, and the creep has pushed "affordable" out almost 20-30miles from the city center (commute time >1hr). Factor in the road networks are terrible, and mass transit stations are rare enough that real estate near them commands a premium and you find people willing to fork over a chunk of change in rent to not have a terrible commute either to city center or their 'burb job. Houses for sale, in the neighborhoods closer to the city, with good schools, not terrible commute etc, are generally priced for 2-income families. (>$500k).

Yes, the tradeoff between renting and buying is you assume the risk and costs of maintenance in buying. Most of the rentals i know of (single family homes or townhouse) push the cost of utilities onto the renter so really, all we aren't paying for is standard house maintenance and taxes. I'd rather assume the costs and risks of maintenance and taxes (and budget for them accordingly) and live with a fixed housing cost rather than continue fighting variable costs and potentially cranky landlords. Nothing makes a good housing situation sour faster than a bad land lord.

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be able to answer that. My wife and I are early 30s. I spent my 20s in the rat race, working 60-80 hour weeks for material possesions (nice vehicle, luxury townhouse, etc). At some point, I got tired of it and said, "Can we try something different?" I switched to a fully remote job. We disposed of the townhouse (no equity in it). We downsized our lives (1 car! I ride a bicycle everywhere! You would not imagin…

What a wife you have. One in a million, indeed.

[deleted]

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be able to answer that. My wife and I are early 30s. I spent my 20s in the rat race, working 60-80 hour weeks for material possesions (nice vehicle, luxury townhouse, etc). At some point, I got tired of it and said, "Can we try something different?" I switched to a fully remote job. We disposed of the townhouse (no equity in it). We downsized our lives (1 car! I ride a bicycle everywhere! You would not imagin…

What a wife you have. One in a million, indeed.

The "secret" (there isn't one!) is really to simply find someone who wants to live the same life you do. Easier said than done, it's true, but you need compatibility whether you want to live a $1M/ year or a $20k/year lifestyle together.

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'd need to address the powerful incentive to create fake reviews.

While true, I think the bigger issue is that no landlord would, in their right mind, agree to be represented on a website that is almost certainly going to contain nothing but negative reviews. If one stops to ponder what would make an individual want to rate their landlord on a "RateMyLandlord" kind of site, then the answer is pretty simple: hatred. The biggest reason for people to write such a review is to complain…

I was a good tenant. I paid on time. I didn't wreck my apartment. I did need repairs once: the hood (required by code) over my stove was never installed. I did ask for an exterminator repeatedly, because mice were coming in through the walls (there was a 2" gap between the floorboards and the sheetrock behind the baseboard radiator cowling; I caught 18 mice in one weekend). I did ask for an exterminator repeatedly, because about 15 months in bedbugs started coming in through my walls. About 16 months in, my landlord informed me they were going to begin eviction proceedings against me for failure to pay rent. I had paid every month, on time. The building had changed owners, and the new owner bungled their rent payment history. Had to hire a lawyer to send them a letter (along with a thick packet of supporting documents) declaring that no, in fact, I did not owe them four months rent.

So yeah, between illegally trying to evict me, never once exterminating that place, etc etc .... I'm glad I don't live in a building owned by a shitty landlord anymore. I'd give my previous landlord a solid F-; I'd give my current landlord an A. I'm also paying 150% what my previous place was for the privilege of having a landlord that doesn't violate the law monthly.

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