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How to get hired at a startup when you don't know anyone

shane.engineer

121–130 of 166 posts

Re: How to get hired at a startup when you don't know anyone

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is definitely true. Initially I felt like my loyalty was a result of having no other options, but it's proven untrue. I've had offers from all over the place since I've grown within Shopify, and I have no desire to leave this place. It's been fulfilling, challenging, and it will always be the place that took a chance on me when there were very few logical reasons to do so.

That's awesome, but please be careful. I was in the same situation as you but I was 19, hired as the first engineer (second employee) in a company of 5 people and I quit after almost 3 years. Even though it's still fresh, when I look back, I really think I should've quit earlier. When I joined I wanted to reward the company by showing that I was a hard worker but this resulted in just increasing the expectations with…

I was in a similar situation.

I was suffering from long-term unemployment after a layoff, and my experience was so specialized that no company really wanted me (and if a company didn't want experience, why not just hire someone fresh out of college?).

I wound up somehow managing to land a job at a year-old startup that was still in early stages. I was making barely more than what I made at my last job in pure cash ($45k vs. $42k), when I'd been underpaid at my last job, and I received no insurance whatsoever. Still, I was grateful because I needed a job: the long-term unemployment had destroyed my mental health, plunged me five figures in debt, left me barely able to afford to live, and I was about out of extended unemployment (I found out I'd exhausted it the day after I accepted the offer -- and I got this job in early 2012 when extended unemployment was still a thing). It was this job or suicide, basically.

When I joined, I was one of the only employees who wasn't Director-level or higher. I stayed way longer than I should. Ended up working there almost 3 years. The company was about to kick off the pilot program for their first big product when I left (we had another product before that, but it wasn't suitable for mass production and was discontinued long before the replacement was ready). The owner/CEO was insistent on keeping control of the company, so he never sought VC funding. Instead, we went through an endless cycle of constantly demoing our product to small-time investors. It was a constant scramble of getting things ready for the next demo.

The company stayed small, raises were almost nonexistent (I somehow made it to $47k about a year in after I was rewarded for a huge flash of inspiration where I designed and wrote the product's infrastructure in like two days, but that was it, and I never got another), we never got insurance, and after a certain point we began hiring all new people as contractors to skirt under the federal 15-employee limit (which affects mandatory insurance and EEO matters).

Management was terrible. My boss had no management experience and simply didn't know how to manage anything multiple people worked on. He was a brilliant engineer himself, and everything he wrote solo was a well-designed work of art, but he had no clue how to manage other people. Code breakage issues were constant. The co-head developer was utterly terrible at both design and coding, and my boss (the official head of development -- though he treated the co-head as an equal) insisted he could do no wrong and got irrationally angry whenever his friend's design or coding ability was questioned. My and a co-worker's complaints went unanswered, and said co-worker eventually snapped and dropped his notice on our boss' desk without anything lined up when he realized the problems would never be resolved. Another co-worker left for similar reasons. Neither were replaced. Also, my boss couldn't handle stress, and he'd take out his stress by screaming at his subordinates and treating us like incompetent children.

Oh, and during my employment there, I began my gender transition. While my co-workers and my boss were totally accepting, our landlord wasn't, and they began illegally discriminating against me. My company just rolled over for them and refused to lift a finger to help me. That was when I really started to sour on the company, but it took eight months for me to actually bring myself to leave. I wound up fighting the landlord myself and filed a discrimination complaint with the city. Everyone with the city I dealt with was nothing short of excellent to me, much better than my employer. At one informal mediation session, I brought in the owner/CEO, and in his bumbling ignorance, he almost sabotaged my case. Finally, the landlord backed off, and I won, but I will never forget how poorly I was treated by my own employer. What's funny is that I was told by the city that if my employer had been over the 15-employee threshold, I could've filed both a municipal discrimination complaint and a federal EEO violation against them for rolling over for the landlord.

Still, I stuck with the company for a few reasons. One, I still felt like I owed them something after how they rescued me from long-term unemployment. Two, their treatment of me shattered my self-confidence, and now I was afraid to put myself out there (doubly so since I'd never gone job hunting as a woman before). Three, as bad as this place was, it was the devil I knew; my next employer could easily be worse. Four, my immediate co-workers were wonderful people, and I didn't want to leave them behind (when I finally left, I friended some of them on Facebook, and we still keep in touch).

The final straw was when my boss spent several minutes shouting at me for something that was his fault and then spent the next week screwing with my desk arrangements before finally putting me on a PIP. I started searching for new jobs that day. Soon, one of the jobs I applied to that day got back to me with a programming test, then a phone interview, then a real interview. Within a month, I received a formal offer from them, and I put my notice in the day before the PIP was to expire.

I like my new employer much better. I was right to apply for this job, and I'm never working for a startup again.

Getting out felt like leaving an abusive relationship. I've talked to spousal abuse survivors, and their stories about how their exes treated them and how difficult it was to get out remind me of what I went through with that company.

Re: How to get hired at a startup when you don't know anyone

#122
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best argument for a cover letter over a resume is that relatively few people tailor their resume to each application. As a result, a resume is the job-application equivalent of a mass-mailer. Cover letters (when written correctly and not templated) convey a certain amount of interest in THIS job, and show that the candidate is serious about the position.

I think that's only significant if you believe a candidate's display of interest correlates significantly with their ability to perform on the job. I am not convinced that that is a significant correlation or that it should be aggressively selected for.

It definitely correlates with interviewing them being a complete waste of time because they barely read the job description and don't actually want to work for you.

Re: How to get hired at a startup when you don't know anyone

#123
post #120
post #36

An intermediate step between "send in a resume and cover letter that no one reads" and "send in an unsolicited blow-their-minds project", which may well bounce off the same spam or attention filter which bounces a resume, is "convince one person in the company that they want you to apply there." This is much, much less difficult than engineers think it is. People with hiring authority are on the same Internet you are…

> You're not proposing marriage here. For me the biggest job-search hurdle is emotional... I know it sounds like one of those bullshit "you biggest weakness" dodges, but the idea of "looking elsewhere" is perilous. I feels either like cheating (on my current employer) or else some sort of irrevocable sense of obligation towards whatever I'm asking about. ("How dare you waste my time with questions if you weren't alre…

If it helps, remember that the people on the other side absolutely do not feel the way you feel. Your current employer understands that employees will leave, and plans and budgets for that. That's why people talk about bus numbers.

Your prospective employers do not expect every coffee, phone screen, or interview to result in a new employee. They understand that they will talk to people who are a bad fit, and that's part of the process.

I respect that you feel that way, and have felt that way myself, but it gets in the way of advantageous moves.

Re: How to get hired at a startup when you don't know anyone

#124
post #36

An intermediate step between "send in a resume and cover letter that no one reads" and "send in an unsolicited blow-their-minds project", which may well bounce off the same spam or attention filter which bounces a resume, is "convince one person in the company that they want you to apply there." This is much, much less difficult than engineers think it is. People with hiring authority are on the same Internet you are…

Time to do such research is not always a luxury a job applicant has. The hypothetical job candidate would, I'm sure, love to be able to get to know the intimate details of the 30 companies they need to apply to right now (because their savings dries up in 3 months and they have a family to feed), but that takes a lot of time. Maybe you didn't happen to have watched Bob's presentation at $CONFERENCE. Chances are, you…

That is true, but I don't think I have 30 companies I would be really excited to work at. I could find 30 companies easily, but that would require doing the same amount of research. Sure doing research on 30 different companies may require too much time, but not doing it would mean I would probably end up shotgunning job applications to a bunch of places I don't have strong opinions on.

Re: How to get hired at a startup when you don't know anyone

#125
I once applied to Heroku; I wrote a song about deploying to Heroku, made a video for it on Youtube, deployed it to Heroku (of course), and applied (via their site and Twitter). Never got an email back, not even a "we received your application". Was bummed out for a while afterwards.

Re: How to get hired at a startup when you don't know anyone

#126
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's only significant if you believe a candidate's display of interest correlates significantly with their ability to perform on the job. I am not convinced that that is a significant correlation or that it should be aggressively selected for.

It definitely correlates with interviewing them being a complete waste of time because they barely read the job description and don't actually want to work for you.

Then I suppose it's a matter of what your local hiring market looks like. If there's a lot of unattached talent floating around, by all means, filter aggressively for those who want it the most.

Re: How to get hired at a startup when you don't know anyone

#127
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Formlabs cofounder here. Of course, there is a difference between a demo focusing on implementing new features then the software that we are shipping. But yes, it was extremely impressive and it's no surprise that he is leading much of our engineering team (beyond software, as well) today.

You're the best boss in this thread. On a side note, what are higher ups looking for in a young applicant? I'm graduating in the fall with a CS Undergrad and don't have any startup contacts (I live in a smaller town in Missouri) and am trying to get my foot in the door somewhere that is doing interesting work.

Passion. Engagement. Curiosity. Being the absolute best possible at something - I don't really care what, but being mediocre at lots of things is a turnoff. Ability to learn new stuff, more so than any specific skill (although YMMV with this one).

Any interview I walk out of thinking I've had a 2-way meeting of minds, a genuinely engaged conversation as if we're already peers, rather than an attempt to simply answer a list of questions is going to do well.

Re: How to get hired at a startup when you don't know anyone

#128

I got my first real startup job by submitting a bunch of bugfix patches to their open source offering. It was relatively easy - they had a public bug tracker, and I just picked the things I thought I could figure out, and after one weekend, I had a job offer. I was there for two years, and I never saw another candidate try to do that. We kept doing technical interviews that gave mixed signals - plenty of people got t…

"submit a bugfix to our open source project" might be looked down upon as trying to get people to work for you for free

So pay them?

Re: How to get hired at a startup when you don't know anyone

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's awesome, but please be careful. I was in the same situation as you but I was 19, hired as the first engineer (second employee) in a company of 5 people and I quit after almost 3 years. Even though it's still fresh, when I look back, I really think I should've quit earlier. When I joined I wanted to reward the company by showing that I was a hard worker but this resulted in just increasing the expectations with…

I was in a similar situation. I was suffering from long-term unemployment after a layoff, and my experience was so specialized that no company really wanted me (and if a company didn't want experience, why not just hire someone fresh out of college?). I wound up somehow managing to land a job at a year-old startup that was still in early stages. I was making barely more than what I made at my last job in pure cash ($…

Thank you for having the courage and time to write your story.

Re: How to get hired at a startup when you don't know anyone

#130

The largest thing that stops me from being able to apply for a job as a college student is that every job I am interested in, mainly back-end/low-level software development, say that they require a "MS in CS and 5 years of experience." These job postings are for entry level positions and internships, nothing higher. Is this something I should be worried about? Should I just apply to this kind of work anyway? How do I…

As others have said, just apply.

I know the company I work has boilerplate job descriptions, but if we think the person is a good fit, we never compare their experience and education to the job description, we just hire them. Most interviewers couldn't even tell you what was in the job description.

Also, I have several friends who applied for jobs that appeared way above their current level. We're talking 10 years of experience, when they only have 5 (and you include a lot of experience that isn't directly relevant). They got those jobs.

If you are interested in a job, apply for it. Full stop.

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