The Rise of Renting in the U.S • Hacker News Board

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#151

Post by nwah1 » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 9:47 PM UTC

imh wrote: post #40

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tax deduction is baked into the price.

There are some really interesting dynamics to that. Especially owner occupied deductions that effectively make it more expensive for pure investors and landlords.

Can we all take a moment to appreciate the good work of our nation's industrious land speculators. They hold prime land out of productive use, and this makes everyone better off. When a speculator buys oil, this encourages drilling for more oil. When a speculator buys land, it encourages people to create new land.

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#152

Post by VLM » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 9:49 PM UTC

floppydisk wrote: post #76

irishcoffee wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read this counter-point a lot. Its never clear to me how you invest the mortgage payment and also pay rent to live somewhere. Am I missing something? Sincere question.

The basic premise behind that idea is rents are (historically were) cheaper than a mortgage so you could take the mortgage-rent delta, invest that, and generate a return greater than the interest rate on the mortgage and end up ahead. A lot of the mortgage calculators have a 3-5yr inflection point where renting, traditionally, was always cheaper if you planned on staying somewhere for 3-5yrs and moving. The problem i…

> landlords have no problems keeping tenants increasing rent 3-10% year over year.

Where are the accompanying income increases coming from? Clearly not W-2 income. What can't continue forever does tend to stop. Or at least what happens on an extremely small scale can't be the case over an extremely large scale. Can't squeeze blood from a stone...

Also never forget the cost of home ownership isn't the mortgage, at least when compared to renting. That's only about half, once the numerous additional expenses are considered. My bachelor pad rent included everything but the electrical bill. Mortgages do not pay the gas bill or for a roof or a new HVAC system or water bill or (generally) property taxes or ...

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#153

Post by toomuchtodo » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 9:49 PM UTC

astrowilliam wrote: post #125

toomuchtodo wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you! But I can't take the credit. These other people I found organically online gave us the push we needed: http://www.thenomadtrip.com/ http://fattygoodlander.com/ http://www.sailingtotem.com/ I love technology. I love the work I do. But I will only live so long. Work to live, don't live to work. Make enough to live well enough to spend time living well. You won't lay on your death bed wishing you crammed a fe…

Your last statement really hit a note with me. I've been spending my life chasing money and recently realized that I was just filling a hole. I have found someone that is willing to go adventuring with me. Screw the boring office worker life, it's time to start living. Good luck and have an incredible life!

Life is short, I encourage you to live it to the fullest! (and it sounds like you are on your way!)

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#154

Post by awakeasleep » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 9:50 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #110

This article is full of "no kidding" like, oh: > In fact, metros with greater shares of renters have higher wages, higher productivity (measured as economic output per capita), and greater concentrations of high-tech firms, according to Mellander’s basic correlation analysis. People are attracted to where the jobs are, and so everything gets bought up and inflated, and the late comers have to rent. In related news, y…

Property taxes should basically kill the dream of "and don't pay a fucking thing to anyone" for anyone that lives in the US.

Especially city dwellers. I was surprised to see tax for properties I could technically afford cost more per year than I had been paying in rent.

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#155

Post by toast_coder » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 9:54 PM UTC

I think this articular is giving off some bad interpretations. First and foremost this guy's data all starts at 2006. Well, do a quick GIS for a chart on home ownership in America. 2006 was basically the peak for at least the past 40 years, and probably longer than that. Drawing conclusions about how America is changing based on changing home ownership since a huge bubble which peaked when he started calculating his data is downright poor science.

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#156

Post by turar » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 9:55 PM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #142

turar wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand why you would pay rent to live somewhere else. I'm talking about living in the house that you bought and have a mortgage on. Say your mortgage loan amount is $300K at 3.5%, locked in for 30 years. Instead of paying it off in 6-10 years with extra payments, I say invest those extra payments in the stock market, and keep paying the mortgage for 30 years at a locked rate of 3.5%. If that money…

> On top of that, it also depends where you think the interests rates will be in 10-20 years from now. If you believe that they will be higher than they are currently, then that's even more reason to keep that loan locked in for 30 years instead of paying it off sooner. That makes no sense. You'll be better off paying a lower interest rate than you would be not having a loan in a high rate environment?

Remember, the loan is locked in. Everything around you may be a high rate environment, but your loan is still 3.5% when regular bank savings account would be paying, say 7%.

So, if you bought shares of an Emerging Markets ETF [1] with the money that you would have otherwise paid for accelerated mortgage payments. Today these shares are paying you around 3.5% in dividends alone.

Fast forward ten years to a high rate environment, and ten years of buying ETF shares and reinvesting dividends, I'm assuming that the dollar amount of your shares would be higher than the amount of debt you would have otherwise paid off already.

That's why no other country on Earth that I know of has 30-year fixed mortgages. They are essentially a government subsidy to homeowners via Fannie/Freddie.

[1] https://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSEARCA%3AVWO

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#157

Post by rdiddly » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 9:57 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #144

wavefunction wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@toomuchtodo >>applicable to the majority of people? >Have job that pays median US wage or above. This requirement and solution are a mis-match.

Updated to: "Make more than you spend and save combined"

Wait, why? Where does the money go that is neither spent nor saved?

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#158

Post by VLM » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 9:59 PM UTC

eljimmy wrote: post #28

martythemaniak wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have mortgage deductions here in Canada, but the home ownership percentage is nearly the same as in the US. There's many fine reasons, including customizing and fixing a place to your liking, which you can't do with rentals. Personally, what I'd really love to do is build my own house.

You can customize a rental (to an extent), you just need to get approval from your landlord first. Of course it would be purely for the benefit of your day to day life as you wouldn't get anything back out of it (if and when you decide to move). To each his own.

Talk to some landlords about their experiences, if you're judgment proof, nothing you do in a rental ever costs more than the security deposit.

At the bigger multi units, if your room is up for replacing carpet or repainting, they simply don't care what you do, they're replacing it all on schedule. When I left my bachelor pad it was up for its decade remodel, they didn't care as long as I didn't bother the neighbors or create a superfund site.

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#159

Post by geodel » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 9:59 PM UTC

rocky1138 wrote: post #97

blhack wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm about to get basically kicked out of a house I've been renting for 5 years. My lease expires in April, and I haven't been able to get a response back from the owners about renewing it. I understand, though... My neighborhood basically grew up around me, and my house is by far the cheapest rent in the neighborhood. The owners want to kick me out, remodel/demolish/rebuild the place where I live, and rent it for twi…

If you're in Ontario, after your lease ends, it becomes a month-to-month agreement by default. You don't have to do anything. Landlords cannot evict a tenant after a lease is finished without a valid reason.

It is same where I stay in NoVa. The catch is rent goes up by 50% when on month to month. Considering it is already competitively priced apartment it would not make sense to continue.

Re: The Rise of Renting in the U.S

#160

Post by ap3 » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 10:02 PM UTC

awakeasleep wrote: post #154

kazinator wrote: post #110

This article is full of "no kidding" like, oh: > In fact, metros with greater shares of renters have higher wages, higher productivity (measured as economic output per capita), and greater concentrations of high-tech firms, according to Mellander’s basic correlation analysis. People are attracted to where the jobs are, and so everything gets bought up and inflated, and the late comers have to rent. In related news, y…

Property taxes should basically kill the dream of "and don't pay a fucking thing to anyone" for anyone that lives in the US. Especially city dwellers. I was surprised to see tax for properties I could technically afford cost more per year than I had been paying in rent.

Yes. Because renters don't pay property taxes /s