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China Deploys Missiles on Disputed Island in South China Sea

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Re: China Deploys Missiles on Disputed Island in South China Sea

#51

Post by at-fates-hands »

xiaoma wrote: post #46
chvid wrote: post #38

Russia and China are quite different and in different situations. China benifits hugely by the drop in commodity prices and Russia does the opposite. It is also much easier to understand the strategic goals of China: This "dispute" will eventually amount to nothing; it is mere posturing showing the Americans that any military action will be too costly. In a couple of decades; Taiwan will join China in a manner simila…

This is one of the least informed posts I've ever seen on HN about cross strait issues. Unlike HK or Macau, Taiwan is a fully democratic state and has been for decades. Also unlike people in HK or Macau, Taiwanese don't consider themselves Chinese. http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/02/12/we-are-no-compatriots-of... The only way China could annex the island would entering a war. That would be extremely ill-advised conside…

>> That would be extremely ill-advised considering the US committed to defending Taiwan.

Maybe ten years ago, I would say it would never happen.

However, fighting several wars in the middle east, the Russian annexation of Crimea and the US not doing anything, let alone NATO not doing anything, leads me to hesitate to say anything would be done to stop it. Maybe this changes over the next decade, but if it were to happen soon, I have my doubts the US would have the moral constitution to do anything to stop it.

Re: China Deploys Missiles on Disputed Island in South China Sea

#52

Post by ihsw »

it_learnses wrote: post #7
1stop wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but isn't this just bigotry? Why is China a thug of a government?

non-elected dictatorship.

If the farce of the Democratic Party leader nomination is any indication of democracy in the US then you're in for a big disappointment -- the winners and losers are hand-picked there as well.

Re: China Deploys Missiles on Disputed Island in South China Sea

#53

Post by xiaoma »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #51
xiaoma wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the least informed posts I've ever seen on HN about cross strait issues. Unlike HK or Macau, Taiwan is a fully democratic state and has been for decades. Also unlike people in HK or Macau, Taiwanese don't consider themselves Chinese. http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/02/12/we-are-no-compatriots-of... The only way China could annex the island would entering a war. That would be extremely ill-advised conside…

>> That would be extremely ill-advised considering the US committed to defending Taiwan. Maybe ten years ago, I would say it would never happen. However, fighting several wars in the middle east, the Russian annexation of Crimea and the US not doing anything, let alone NATO not doing anything, leads me to hesitate to say anything would be done to stop it. Maybe this changes over the next decade, but if it were to hap…

It certainly doesn't help that Europe, particularly France, has spent the past two decades selling China the weapons and tech to do the invasion.

That said, Taiwan is a country of roughly similar population and economic clout as Australia. Standing by and ignoring an act of war on that scale would be devastating to international stability (and US security interests).

Re: China Deploys Missiles on Disputed Island in South China Sea

#55

Post by knowaveragejoe »

tomp wrote: post #25
it_learnses wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two thugs are not equivalent. And yes. I would have US govt. over Chinese govt. any day.

Right, US treats their own citizens marginally better, but they're pretty much equally thugish with their foreign affairs.

"Marginally" would be a severe understatement.

Re: China Deploys Missiles on Disputed Island in South China Sea

#56

Post by knowaveragejoe »

golergka wrote: post #26
stingraycharles wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet tells me you're Canadian. That is close enough to have a bias. Look at the world from a different point of view, and you would understand that corruption is everywhere, not just in China. Some people are just better at hiding it.

> corruption is everywhere, not just in China If the famous US corruption cases, like Flint, have taught me anything, it's that corruption in US is on much lower level than in countries like Russia or China, and people and media are much, much less tolerant to it. Basically, Flint scandal could never happen in Russia because no one would ever give a fuck.

Corruption in Russia and China are a matter of policy. They are bold-faced and completely open about it. Corruption certainly exists in the US, but it is much less overt and much less common.

There is significant precedence in the US of politicians being caught in the act and prosecuted as a manner of policy, rather than the sacrificial examples in RU and CH where it is more about politics and/or making an example of someone. Just look up the lists of American Federal/State/Local politicians convicted of crimes, there are a number of lists on Wikipedia.

Re: China Deploys Missiles on Disputed Island in South China Sea

#57

Post by knowaveragejoe »

vkou wrote: post #50
stevetrewick wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's on you then, elect some better ones. That thin line is the demos.

In 2014, Congress had a ~5% approval rating, and a 95% re-election rating. "Kick the bastards out" works well in some democracies, and less well in others.

This is an admonishment of the American public more than anything. Apathy is rampant among most people.

Re: China Deploys Missiles on Disputed Island in South China Sea

#58

Post by knowaveragejoe »

melling wrote: post #11
tomp wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe by the US thug of a government?

Doubtful. Our little wars cost us too much. China already has the second most powerful economy in the world, and they've greatly increased military spending. http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/05/asia/china-military-spending/

Comparing nominal dollars spent on the world's militaries is a totally flawed analysis of their capabilities with respect to each other.

Re: China Deploys Missiles on Disputed Island in South China Sea

#59

Post by pedrosorio »

auganov wrote: post #47
chvid wrote: post #38

Russia and China are quite different and in different situations. China benifits hugely by the drop in commodity prices and Russia does the opposite. It is also much easier to understand the strategic goals of China: This "dispute" will eventually amount to nothing; it is mere posturing showing the Americans that any military action will be too costly. In a couple of decades; Taiwan will join China in a manner simila…

I don't know the history of China's takeover of Macau. But in case of Hong Kong it was mostly legal and diplomatic reasons (of the UK). Taiwan is an independent democracy, it's very unlikely they'd willingly agree to that. Personally I'd rather bet on the CCP loosing/giving-up power than Taiwan joining the Mainland. And Hong Kong could possibly be one of the triggers. Not to mention US loosing Taiwan [and South Korea…

Same for Macau:

"Shortly after Portugal's 1974 Carnation Revolution, which overthrew the Estado Novo dictatorship, the new government determined it would relinquish all its overseas possessions. In 1976, Lisbon redefined Macau as a "Chinese territory under Portuguese administration" and granted it a large measure of administrative, financial, and economic autonomy. Three years later, Portugal and China agreed to regard Macau as "a Chinese territory under (temporary) Portuguese administration".[17][45] The Chinese and Portuguese governments commenced negotiations on the question of Macau in June 1986. The two signed a Sino-Portuguese Joint Declaration the next year, making Macau a special administrative region (SAR) of China.[46] The Chinese government assumed formal sovereignty over Macau on 20 December 1999.[47]"

in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macau#History

Re: China Deploys Missiles on Disputed Island in South China Sea

#60

Post by chvid »

xiaoma wrote: post #46
chvid wrote: post #38

Russia and China are quite different and in different situations. China benifits hugely by the drop in commodity prices and Russia does the opposite. It is also much easier to understand the strategic goals of China: This "dispute" will eventually amount to nothing; it is mere posturing showing the Americans that any military action will be too costly. In a couple of decades; Taiwan will join China in a manner simila…

This is one of the least informed posts I've ever seen on HN about cross strait issues. Unlike HK or Macau, Taiwan is a fully democratic state and has been for decades. Also unlike people in HK or Macau, Taiwanese don't consider themselves Chinese. http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/02/12/we-are-no-compatriots-of... The only way China could annex the island would entering a war. That would be extremely ill-advised conside…

:-)

I was mostly referring to the what I believe be the strategic thinking of the Chinese communists.

"Also unlike people in HK or Macau, Taiwanese don't consider themselves Chinese."

That is not my impression. But it is hard to gage for me.

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