China's Subprime Crisis Is Here • Hacker News Board

Re: China's Subprime Crisis Is Here

#151

Post by vkou » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 3:33 PM UTC

witty_username wrote: post #74

miserable1980 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've been in constant crisis mode since 2000 (just as I graduated college). This crap kept me from buying a home, delayed marriage and children, etc. In my mid 30s, I have no job security, almost no retirement and no home. I had no idea life in the 21st century was going to be so miserable for young people in North America. I guess this is globalization in action :(

Why do you think it's globalization in action?

I think we can safely say that globalization kicked the knees out of the manufacturing sector in the West.

And, as a consequence, destroyed much of its middle class. The new service jobs that replaced them are largely... Not very good ones.

Re: China's Subprime Crisis Is Here

#152

Post by cylinder » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 3:40 PM UTC

mmanfrin wrote: post #41

jcoffland wrote: post #33

The American media seems to jump at any opportunity to dismiss China as an economic threat. It makes us feel more secure but leads to a public informed only about one side of China's story. Namely the part our ego can handle. China has regularly surpassed the US in number of cars sold since 2009. China also holds more US debt than any other country. Another way to put that is the US government owes China over 1 trill…

China also holds more US debt than any other country ... except the US and domestic sources, which hold 2/3rds of all our debt. In other words, domestic sources hold over 9x the debt that China does.

everyone touts this as if it makes a difference. as if the US defaulting would be fine because it's defaulting to US based creditors vs. foreign ones.

Re: China's Subprime Crisis Is Here

#153

Post by bdisraeli » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 3:41 PM UTC

cylinder wrote: post #152

mmanfrin wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China also holds more US debt than any other country ... except the US and domestic sources, which hold 2/3rds of all our debt. In other words, domestic sources hold over 9x the debt that China does.

everyone touts this as if it makes a difference. as if the US defaulting would be fine because it's defaulting to US based creditors vs. foreign ones.

The US can't default because it prints the currency it's debt is denominated in.

Re: China's Subprime Crisis Is Here

#154

Post by cylinder » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 3:42 PM UTC

carboncopy wrote: post #46

jcoffland wrote: post #33

The American media seems to jump at any opportunity to dismiss China as an economic threat. It makes us feel more secure but leads to a public informed only about one side of China's story. Namely the part our ego can handle. China has regularly surpassed the US in number of cars sold since 2009. China also holds more US debt than any other country. Another way to put that is the US government owes China over 1 trill…

Those are strange metrics of success you chose: number of cars produced annually, amount of public debt held. I'd have gone with GDP, military strength, set of advantageous alliances, or some other measure of economic, military, or political power.

China's alliances are with the youngest regions with big growth potential - much of Africa, Asia, Iran, and now central Asia and Latin America. US has hitched its wagon to the declining western Europe.

Re: China's Subprime Crisis Is Here

#155

Post by cylinder » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 3:48 PM UTC

bdisraeli wrote: post #153

cylinder wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

everyone touts this as if it makes a difference. as if the US defaulting would be fine because it's defaulting to US based creditors vs. foreign ones.

The US can't default because it prints the currency it's debt is denominated in.

the US can default if it wants to.

Re: China's Subprime Crisis Is Here

#156

Post by jonknee » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 4:04 PM UTC

cubano wrote: post #150

fasteddie wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US treasuries are at historically low rates -- if China dumped 'em all it probably wouldn't move the needle that much. And the reason they hold so many is not as some control play against the US -- its because it was the best way to devalue their currency enough to support exports.

Sure...we would just print more money and pay them back. QE programs have been propping up Wall Street for years now, and it would be just more of the same.

No need, there are so many others looking for yield who would buy the bonds.

Re: China's Subprime Crisis Is Here

#157

Post by cylinder » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 4:09 PM UTC

witty_username wrote: post #74

miserable1980 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've been in constant crisis mode since 2000 (just as I graduated college). This crap kept me from buying a home, delayed marriage and children, etc. In my mid 30s, I have no job security, almost no retirement and no home. I had no idea life in the 21st century was going to be so miserable for young people in North America. I guess this is globalization in action :(

Why do you think it's globalization in action?

It's not globalization, it's our awful government and inter-generational and inter-class theft.

Re: China's Subprime Crisis Is Here

#158

Post by known » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

jcoffland wrote: post #33

The American media seems to jump at any opportunity to dismiss China as an economic threat. It makes us feel more secure but leads to a public informed only about one side of China's story. Namely the part our ego can handle. China has regularly surpassed the US in number of cars sold since 2009. China also holds more US debt than any other country. Another way to put that is the US government owes China over 1 trill…

OPEC oil is sold exclusively in US Dollar, not Chinese Yuan;

Re: China's Subprime Crisis Is Here

#159

Post by rm_-rf_slash » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 4:44 PM UTC

jcoffland wrote: post #33

The American media seems to jump at any opportunity to dismiss China as an economic threat. It makes us feel more secure but leads to a public informed only about one side of China's story. Namely the part our ego can handle. China has regularly surpassed the US in number of cars sold since 2009. China also holds more US debt than any other country. Another way to put that is the US government owes China over 1 trill…

Those are some nice metrics you have there. Shame if something were to...happen...to them...

You simply cannot trust Chinese government statistics at face value. Every level of government lies to make itself look better, because they are not accountable to the people but instead to punitive development goals that could have moderately successful bureaucrats uprooted and replaced in a nanosecond if they fall short anywhere.

China is the Titanic of nations: huge, ostentatious, and easier to snap than it looks.

Re: China's Subprime Crisis Is Here

#160

Post by rconti » Wed, Feb 17, 2016, 4:48 PM UTC

jcoffland wrote: post #33

The American media seems to jump at any opportunity to dismiss China as an economic threat. It makes us feel more secure but leads to a public informed only about one side of China's story. Namely the part our ego can handle. China has regularly surpassed the US in number of cars sold since 2009. China also holds more US debt than any other country. Another way to put that is the US government owes China over 1 trill…

Except for all of the times we see articles going on and on about how China's growth and dominance is a threat to us.

I agree the articles we see are biased, and there's an undercurrent of fear in trying to downplay China's rise.

That said, I feel that the forces trying to explain away or ignore China's outright fabrication and lies about its growth are more, how shall I say, insistent.