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Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

theguardian.com

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Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#51

Post by unclebucknasty »

jtolmar wrote: post #50
unclebucknasty wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a surprising phenomenon in microeconomics I was waiting for some counter-intuitive twist, but that seems like common sense and basic math. Not really sure how the concept earned a name.

Paying $1 extra for a better apple is worth it if you value the better flavor by at least that much. It shouldn't matter whether the choice is between $4 and $5 or between $10 and $11 - how did that dollar become less valuable, or the apple tastier? "Humans act like money is proportionate when it's actually linear," is the crux of a wide variety of "surprising" microeconomic facts. People are more likely to drive acr…

Seems this would be counter-intuitive only in a vacuum; that is to say, were there no such thing as opportunity cost. Perhaps that's what you meant by "utility of money" not being linear. And, I agree with that point.

Where we differ is that I don't see how you are acknowledging that in only some cases. The degree may change, but not the underlying concept.

Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#52

Post by andrewtbham »

ValleyOfTheMtns wrote: post #31
nostromo wrote: post #9

> The robots will do everything from re-planting young seedlings to watering, trimming and harvesting crops. Has the author been to a farm in the past 20 years? Most crops today are not planted by hand, or watered by hand, or harvested by hand. (Harvesting is still the most labor intensive part of farming for a few fruits, but automation isn't far off.) I think the most interesting part of this farm is not the automa…

>and the decision to use grow lights indoors instead of sunlight This is the part of indoor automated farming I don't get. You have this free, abundant source of energy needed to grow plants, and you don't use it... why? Seems like a massive inefficiency. Indoors is fine to protect the crops and control the environment, but why not above ground with a clear roof to let sunlight in?

See this article... the artificial light helps them grow the food faster and the lights are very efficient.

http://www.treehugger.com/clean-technology/former-semiconduc...

Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#53

Post by icanhackit »

ekianjo wrote: post #49
icanhackit wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The price is high but the quality is unparalleled in terms of taste, texture and appearance. Humans can be excellent quality assurance machines, they're just very high maintenance.

You must be kidding me. Fruits for example may look perfect in Japan but I will take any ugly looking fruit from France over them anytime. Most of the time they cant compete thats why they have heavy tariffs on imports.

I can only go by what you can buy in Paris vs Tokyo and Osaka, but I disagree. Perhaps you frequent more regional areas with a better selection of produce.

Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#54

Post by Steko »

icanhackit wrote: post #53
ekianjo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be kidding me. Fruits for example may look perfect in Japan but I will take any ugly looking fruit from France over them anytime. Most of the time they cant compete thats why they have heavy tariffs on imports.

I can only go by what you can buy in Paris vs Tokyo and Osaka, but I disagree. Perhaps you frequent more regional areas with a better selection of produce.

Anyone who visits Japan in late summer should try Okayama white peaches. Warning: may ruin you for all other fruit.

Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#55

Post by ph0rque »

samstave wrote: post #2

This is awesome! We were just talking about this on HN the other day. I want to build a fully robotic (automated) talapia fish farm on alameda island if anyone wants to join me?

Have you heard of aquaponics? You can raise both fish and grow plants in an ecosystem.

Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#56

Post by Nutmog »

ValleyOfTheMtns wrote: post #31
nostromo wrote: post #9

> The robots will do everything from re-planting young seedlings to watering, trimming and harvesting crops. Has the author been to a farm in the past 20 years? Most crops today are not planted by hand, or watered by hand, or harvested by hand. (Harvesting is still the most labor intensive part of farming for a few fruits, but automation isn't far off.) I think the most interesting part of this farm is not the automa…

>and the decision to use grow lights indoors instead of sunlight This is the part of indoor automated farming I don't get. You have this free, abundant source of energy needed to grow plants, and you don't use it... why? Seems like a massive inefficiency. Indoors is fine to protect the crops and control the environment, but why not above ground with a clear roof to let sunlight in?

Indoor offices also use artificial lights despite the workers usually only being there during the day. It's probably because the sun is unreliable and expensive to direct into all the spaces that aren't on the roof directly exposed to the sky.

Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#57

Post by samstave »

ph0rque wrote: post #55
samstave wrote: post #2

This is awesome! We were just talking about this on HN the other day. I want to build a fully robotic (automated) talapia fish farm on alameda island if anyone wants to join me?

Have you heard of aquaponics? You can raise both fish and grow plants in an ecosystem.

Yes - this is precisely what I want to do

Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#58

Post by theothermkn »

ValleyOfTheMtns wrote: post #31
nostromo wrote: post #9

> The robots will do everything from re-planting young seedlings to watering, trimming and harvesting crops. Has the author been to a farm in the past 20 years? Most crops today are not planted by hand, or watered by hand, or harvested by hand. (Harvesting is still the most labor intensive part of farming for a few fruits, but automation isn't far off.) I think the most interesting part of this farm is not the automa…

>and the decision to use grow lights indoors instead of sunlight This is the part of indoor automated farming I don't get. You have this free, abundant source of energy needed to grow plants, and you don't use it... why? Seems like a massive inefficiency. Indoors is fine to protect the crops and control the environment, but why not above ground with a clear roof to let sunlight in?

At least partially because you don't have to reproduce the whole spectrum of sunlight, but just those portions that are used by the plants for photosynthesis. Even after solar cell efficiency and other losses, you might still be able to deliver more of the light you want to the plants, in addition to being able to control the day/night cycle.

Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#59

Post by lotyrin »

ValleyOfTheMtns wrote: post #40
Tsagadai wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physical space is often a constraint. Green houses which cover large areas which are needed in areas where it gets cold in winter and you want certain types of food. The other is that the quantity of sunlight varies throughout the year in everywhere that isn't on the equator. Grow lights allow you to go from seed to harvest faster. Consider that the earth is not infinitely large and there is already a substantial por…

>The other is that the quantity of sunlight varies throughout the year in everywhere that isn't on the equator. Grow lights allow you to go from seed to harvest faster Why not have both? Grow lights when the sun isn't optimal, and the sun when it is. Wouldn't it be a huge cost saving measure to use free light instead of burning energy on grow lights when you don't need it?

If you want to use the sun, you'd farm outdoors traditionally. You're right at the core of it, that's why most farming still happens outside.

Building a specialized building is a compromise putting you into an uneconomical position, you'd only provide additional light to the top-most layer of plants (small operating savings) at the cost of building specialized architecture (large capital expense).

From what I understand, the vertical indoor farms are mostly low-calorie high-moisture crops so far like lettuces. Compared to many crops, energy is not the primary input, it's water, space and time. These vertical indoor farms economize by controlling the environment they grow in to avoid wasting water, accelerating growth cycle with grow lighting to avoid wasting time, and stack plants vertically to avoid wasting space. Supposedly it makes sense to pay the premium for electrical energy to be able to save on the other inputs. For higher-calorie crops I imagine the math works out to be quite far from break-even.

This is also why these vertical farms aren't about to solve social issues that people attach hope to them for, low calorie vertical farm produce isn't going to provide for the dietary needs of enough people to impact the the problem of transporting foods from agricultural areas to metropolitan areas basically at all.

Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#60

Post by pierre »

The company behind this farm have a nice website with a lot of specification / technical detail for their farm [1].

They claim that this farm will produce 10M lettuces per year on 3500m2. They are also looking for partmers to franchise their technology, inside and outside of japan.

[1] http://spread.co.jp/en/technology/

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