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Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

theguardian.com

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Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#31

Post by ValleyOfTheMtns »

nostromo wrote: post #9

> The robots will do everything from re-planting young seedlings to watering, trimming and harvesting crops. Has the author been to a farm in the past 20 years? Most crops today are not planted by hand, or watered by hand, or harvested by hand. (Harvesting is still the most labor intensive part of farming for a few fruits, but automation isn't far off.) I think the most interesting part of this farm is not the automa…

>and the decision to use grow lights indoors instead of sunlight

This is the part of indoor automated farming I don't get. You have this free, abundant source of energy needed to grow plants, and you don't use it... why? Seems like a massive inefficiency. Indoors is fine to protect the crops and control the environment, but why not above ground with a clear roof to let sunlight in?

Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#32

Post by bendykstra »

sithadmin wrote: post #13
bpodgursky wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese farming is notoriously manual, inefficient, and protected by heavy tariffs.

It shows - in a good way - in the quality of the produce, though.

There is a surprising phenomenon in microeconomics called the Alchian–Allen effect[1]. Quoting from Wikipedia, "[W]hen the prices of two substitute goods, such as high and low grades of the same product, are both increased by a fixed per-unit amount such as a transportation cost or a lump-sum tax, consumption will shift toward the higher-grade product. This is true because the added per-unit amount decreases the relative price of the higher-grade product." The quality of Japanese produce could be due to the effect of the higher prices on consumer decision-making rather than any advantages of small-scale farming.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchian%E2%80%93Allen_effect

Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#33

Post by asdfologist »

imtringued wrote: post #24
narrator wrote: post #3

I'm a bit puzzled that the reaction on the Guardian to this development is primarily one of fear that robots are taking our jobs. Isn't anyone excited about how all this production and efficiency is going to make food extremely cheap?

Food is already extremly cheap to the point where producers throw it away to artificially raise prises. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-01/milk-spill...

I don't see anything in that article that supports your position. The article says that farmers are dumping milk because the supply has been outstripping demand and inventory costs aren't cheap. That's completely different from "throwing it away to artificially raise prices."

Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#34

Post by dwiel »

mmanfrin wrote: post #26

Having a tiny rasp pi controlled greenhouse in my backyard is something that really interests me. Can put little chain-driven slides above grow areas to shuffle around 'arms' that can plant/pick/prune/water; garden through code.

Have you seen farmbot? It is almost exactly as you describe.

Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#35

Post by gozur88 »

ramy_d wrote: post #17
narrator wrote: post #3

I'm a bit puzzled that the reaction on the Guardian to this development is primarily one of fear that robots are taking our jobs. Isn't anyone excited about how all this production and efficiency is going to make food extremely cheap?

I can relate to the sentiment - what's going to happen to countries in the short term when entire industries like transport and farming are automated at nearly the same time?

In the US, farming represents something like 2% of the workforce. If we lost every farming job (and we won't - robotic operations will have to be managed and maintained), it would still have less impact than the loss of manufacturing jobs in the '80s and '90s.

Transport, I think, would hurt more, but I don't know enough about it to say for sure.

Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#36

Post by orthecreedence »

ValleyOfTheMtns wrote: post #31
nostromo wrote: post #9

> The robots will do everything from re-planting young seedlings to watering, trimming and harvesting crops. Has the author been to a farm in the past 20 years? Most crops today are not planted by hand, or watered by hand, or harvested by hand. (Harvesting is still the most labor intensive part of farming for a few fruits, but automation isn't far off.) I think the most interesting part of this farm is not the automa…

>and the decision to use grow lights indoors instead of sunlight This is the part of indoor automated farming I don't get. You have this free, abundant source of energy needed to grow plants, and you don't use it... why? Seems like a massive inefficiency. Indoors is fine to protect the crops and control the environment, but why not above ground with a clear roof to let sunlight in?

Oddly enough, and this is completely anecdotal, I've had much better luck growing outdoor plants than indoor plants. If an indoor plant gets some kind of pest (spider mites, aphids, etc) then you pretty much have to sit around spraying it and its peers with oils or alcohol day after day until you're confident the infestation is gone.

With outdoor plants, there are so many natural predators to pests that things tend to form a balance. In addition to that, yes, there is the world's most abundant (and inexhaustible) energy source just sitting there waiting to be used.

So I'd be really interested to know the benefits of indoor growing as well (besides the obvious reasons with regards to not wanting DEA aircraft spotting your crops).

Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#37

Post by Tsagadai »

ValleyOfTheMtns wrote: post #31
nostromo wrote: post #9

> The robots will do everything from re-planting young seedlings to watering, trimming and harvesting crops. Has the author been to a farm in the past 20 years? Most crops today are not planted by hand, or watered by hand, or harvested by hand. (Harvesting is still the most labor intensive part of farming for a few fruits, but automation isn't far off.) I think the most interesting part of this farm is not the automa…

>and the decision to use grow lights indoors instead of sunlight This is the part of indoor automated farming I don't get. You have this free, abundant source of energy needed to grow plants, and you don't use it... why? Seems like a massive inefficiency. Indoors is fine to protect the crops and control the environment, but why not above ground with a clear roof to let sunlight in?

Physical space is often a constraint. Green houses which cover large areas which are needed in areas where it gets cold in winter and you want certain types of food. The other is that the quantity of sunlight varies throughout the year in everywhere that isn't on the equator. Grow lights allow you to go from seed to harvest faster. Consider that the earth is not infinitely large and there is already a substantial portion of arable land covered in crops and there are few ways to increase productivity while still planting in the ground. Also consider costs of managing land with a limited staff and transportation.

Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#39

Post by MicroBerto »

ValleyOfTheMtns wrote: post #31
nostromo wrote: post #9

> The robots will do everything from re-planting young seedlings to watering, trimming and harvesting crops. Has the author been to a farm in the past 20 years? Most crops today are not planted by hand, or watered by hand, or harvested by hand. (Harvesting is still the most labor intensive part of farming for a few fruits, but automation isn't far off.) I think the most interesting part of this farm is not the automa…

>and the decision to use grow lights indoors instead of sunlight This is the part of indoor automated farming I don't get. You have this free, abundant source of energy needed to grow plants, and you don't use it... why? Seems like a massive inefficiency. Indoors is fine to protect the crops and control the environment, but why not above ground with a clear roof to let sunlight in?

Not a farmer, but the risk of natural disasters or a crazy early freeze would make sense to completely control it in the long run.

Re: Japanese firm to open world’s first robot-run farm

#40

Post by ValleyOfTheMtns »

Tsagadai wrote: post #37
ValleyOfTheMtns wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and the decision to use grow lights indoors instead of sunlight This is the part of indoor automated farming I don't get. You have this free, abundant source of energy needed to grow plants, and you don't use it... why? Seems like a massive inefficiency. Indoors is fine to protect the crops and control the environment, but why not above ground with a clear roof to let sunlight in?

Physical space is often a constraint. Green houses which cover large areas which are needed in areas where it gets cold in winter and you want certain types of food. The other is that the quantity of sunlight varies throughout the year in everywhere that isn't on the equator. Grow lights allow you to go from seed to harvest faster. Consider that the earth is not infinitely large and there is already a substantial por…

>The other is that the quantity of sunlight varies throughout the year in everywhere that isn't on the equator. Grow lights allow you to go from seed to harvest faster

Why not have both? Grow lights when the sun isn't optimal, and the sun when it is. Wouldn't it be a huge cost saving measure to use free light instead of burning energy on grow lights when you don't need it?

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