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The iPhone obsession

quirksmode.org

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Re: The iPhone obsession

#61

Post by jonknee »

tomkarlo wrote: post #52
jonknee wrote: post #12

At least in the US, a lot of designers have an iPhone (and so do their friends). I think it's also likely that the iPhone was the first mobile device they have ever used the internet on. It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that since me and all my friends only use the iPhone everyone else does to.

I don't agree. The iPhone was at least my 4th or 5th device that had some kind of "mobile web" function. Most folks had smartphones, blackberries, etc before they got an iphone if they had any interest in the net. The problem was, the reality of tying to actually _use_ these devices to access web sites was such a horrible UX that you didn't do it unless there was absolutely no other option. In comparison, lots of us…

Are you a designer?

Re: The iPhone obsession

#62

Post by pyre »

awolf wrote: post #28

"First, so what? No, let me rephrase that: So fucking what? Since when does web development mean leaving 50% of your mobile users out in the cold? Since when is “I only support browsers with a large market share” a valid argument? (Answer: since we have an iPhone up our ass.)" A device has more than 3x its market-share in traffic-share and we are supposed to ignore that? That doesn't seem realistic. This gap between…

He also makes these points:

  * Those usage numbers (50% of mobile browser traffic)
    could be a US-only statistic
  * People on other browsers might not browse the web as much because
    not enough effort is made to making web content usable on those
    browsers.
Viewing your argument alongside the second point poses a possible chicken-and-the-egg problem. No one is using other mobile browsers because the experience sucks, but the experience sucks because not enough development is done to make it bearable (or pleasant). Not enough development time is being spent to make the experience bearable or pleasant because no one is using those other mobile browsers.

Re: The iPhone obsession

#63

Post by sp332 »

statictype wrote: post #16
colinplamondon wrote: post #5

It's not about the iPhone, it's about Webkit. He seems to forget the fact that hardware sales doesn't translate into actual internet usage. The internet outside of iPhone, Android, and Palm is so terrible that barely anyone even bothers to use it. What do those three platforms have in common? Webkit!

Nokia's browser is also based on WebKit.

The Nokia N900 runs a gecko-based browser.

Re: The iPhone obsession

#64

Post by sp332 »

gizmo wrote: post #44
jbox wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None. Having worked on mobile web applications that serve a wide range of devices, I can honestly say that this is not the case. I would challange ppk to cite examples of this behaviour.

Actually, you can change your user agent with Opera Mobile if I'm not mistaken.

You can change your UA in most major browsers. Not really the point.

Re: The iPhone obsession

#65

Post by bad_user »

chime wrote: post #2

First time I heard Quirksmode curse like a sailor. Regardless, the reason I can't develop for a Nokia, Blackberry, or HTC is because I don't have a Nokia, Blackberry, or HTC. I have an iPhone. It's pretty easy to develop webapps for it because if it looks good in desktop Safari, it will probably look good in iPhone Safari. I don't even know the browsers that other phones have. I know Opera Mini is on many phones and…

Since, I'm running on Linux, I don't have a native IExplorer 6/7/8 installed ... fortunately other people thought about virtualization and emulators.

Re: The iPhone obsession

#66

Post by pavlov »

KirinDave wrote: post #59
vetinari wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, given that Nokia S60v3 browser _is_ webkit, I don't think that the results with your suggested stylesheet would be satisfactory. Would you accept it on your iphone?

If the phone is worth targetting, then target it. I'm just saying that arguing Nokia's total phone market share seems like a sort of sketchy way to extrapolate priorities for smartphone-enabled websites. Does the Nokia S60v3 have large market share worth targeting? The reason Android and iPhone markets have such gravity is that they're large and relatively homogenous consumers of rich web content from the mobile spac…

Sorry, you're the one who's confused -- the article is quite explicit that the marketshare numbers given are for smartphones, not the entire phone market.

Re: The iPhone obsession

#67

Post by KirinDave »

pavlov wrote: post #66
KirinDave wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the phone is worth targetting, then target it. I'm just saying that arguing Nokia's total phone market share seems like a sort of sketchy way to extrapolate priorities for smartphone-enabled websites. Does the Nokia S60v3 have large market share worth targeting? The reason Android and iPhone markets have such gravity is that they're large and relatively homogenous consumers of rich web content from the mobile spac…

Sorry, you're the one who's confused -- the article is quite explicit that the marketshare numbers given are for smartphones, not the entire phone market.

Except that we're talking about smartphones capable of delivering a web experience that is competent enough to be concerned about experience.

There are smartphones and then there are post-2006-smartphones, which actually do real web browsing. I strongly suspect that Nokias numbers here include many phones less capable than the one that was raised in objection previously. Is there independent evidence to the contrary?

Re: The iPhone obsession

#68

Post by stanleydrew »

awolf wrote: post #28

"First, so what? No, let me rephrase that: So fucking what? Since when does web development mean leaving 50% of your mobile users out in the cold? Since when is “I only support browsers with a large market share” a valid argument? (Answer: since we have an iPhone up our ass.)" A device has more than 3x its market-share in traffic-share and we are supposed to ignore that? That doesn't seem realistic. This gap between…

No, you're not supposed to ignore that the iPhone has 3x its market share in mobile traffic. But you're also not supposed to ignore the other 50% of mobile traffic.

Re: The iPhone obsession

#69

Post by hellotoby »

colinplamondon wrote: post #5

It's not about the iPhone, it's about Webkit. He seems to forget the fact that hardware sales doesn't translate into actual internet usage. The internet outside of iPhone, Android, and Palm is so terrible that barely anyone even bothers to use it. What do those three platforms have in common? Webkit!

This statement may be true for your personal experience, but is in fact completely wrong.

Emerging economies such as India have huge mobile Internet populations. In fact in India mobile Internet outnumbers PC based internet 3 to 1 with a mobile Internet use north of 37million users, very few of which are using iPhones.

http://research.nokia.com/files/MobileInternetUsageInIndia.p...

http://mobiforge.com/analysts/blog/mobile-internet-users-ind...

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/india/article.cfm?article...

Re: The iPhone obsession

#70

Post by w1ntermute »

chime wrote: post #37
madair wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this article is aimed directly at you then. And clearly you disagree, sounds like because you don't feel like it. A lot of us don't really want Apple (or Google, or x, or y, or z) to be a monopoly though. And perhaps the people who do follow the advice to consider the other browsers and will help keep things on an even keel.

I disagree not because I don't feel like it but rather because I'm not certain it is the best use of my resources to develop, test, and debug my app in every browser out there. I just don't have the time/money/resources to do it. And I highly doubt most startups do either. So you target the top 5-10 and stick to it till someone complains.

Top 5-10 what? Browsers? Because if Quirksmode is right, the fact that most mobile users of your site are iPhone users is a result of your decision only to do your mobile webdev for the iPhone, not a cause of it. As for sticking to it until someone complains - that's exactly what this article does.

But in the end, the loser is you, the web developer, because you're pushing potential visitors away from your site.

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