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Ask HN: Is Python dying?

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Re: Ask HN: Is Python dying?

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The age makes a big difference for at least these reasons: - given I have a problem, how likely is it that it's a problem in the runtime nobody saw before? - given I want to do X, how likely is it that there's a library doing it already present? (and how likely that there's one established library rather than 10 trivial attempts?) - if I can't find a solution to X, how likely is it that there's a solution in the firs…

Massive library. That was Perl's big advantage. Why do more people use Python over Perl? F# isn't really cross-platform yet. Swift is 18 months old. Scala is a bit complicated for many and slow to compile. C# was a Windows only language for a long time, with Xamarin for those who really really need limited cross platform support. OCaml never gained much traction. If Microsoft had used it instead of a slightly differe…

Thought-provoking post. The responses below are my opinion, but I do think there is a good chance they're the opinion of the majority.

>Why do more people use Python over Perl?

Two factors, it came packaged by default on Linux distros and OSX. That was really a king maker in itself. Then add that the language itself is that much better in most people's eyes. People don't really like obfuscated code unless it's the only game in town (ie. the 1990's and Perl).

>Watch out for Go and Swift. These statically typed languages are better for large projects.

It will be interesting. But both have pretty big flaws so any extraordinary claims will demand extraordinary evidence of success. Neither language has exceptions. Go is controversial in its conservatism and this is likely due to the fact the entire team had to agree to add features to it. So it did end up odd in some ways because of that. Swift is in a constant state of change. Both are missing a lot of libraries. I've tried to use Go and see many abandoned projects like Martini and newer projects seemingly abandoned like Revel. The Go faithful will tell you this is because frameworks are not The Go Way, and point you to the Gorilla toolkit instead. I'm not sure I buy that story unquestioned, or not. On the whole, I'm unconvinced due to their language characteristics, that Go or Swift are ideal replacements for either Python or Ruby for webapps.

>These statically typed languages are better for large projects.

Yes, but I wouldn't want to write poorly engineered, bloated and difficult to port code even with static typing. I don't write massive 500KLOC projects so it's not a problem for me, but I have a policy of modularization with my code that would stem the issue (regardless of static typing or not). When you get to 500KLOC, there is no magic fix. Static typing, modularized code, nothing is a cure and hardly even a band-aid.

As a result of all this, I'm still onboard the Python train. I honestly do not see myself hopping off with PyPy being here today and Pyjion, Nuitka, and Pyston all up and coming. I would not be discouraged if a Rubyist either.

Of particular interest is that Microsoft is working on Pyjion and if it works out, API changes will be made to so that you download a module and JIT right from CPython3.

I'm probably more interested in Rust over Go and Swift at this point. Go is an island, similar to Java that way and not C ABI compatible, this makes it a less than ideal wholesale replacement of Python or Ruby. Swift is just too young on both the server and iOS. Rust itself is the best language I will likely never need to use, but its existence unlike most languages, makes an enormous amount of sense.

Re: Ask HN: Is Python dying?

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next year has always been the year that functional programming will take over the world. It's been like that since I started programming in the early 90s. While functional concepts have leaked into imperative languages, Haskell is the only pure functional language that so far has come close to breaking out although Lisp has also gotten close a few times. (see also next year will be the year of Linux on Desktop)

F#? It's used by a few big names (Bayard Rock, Tachyus, Jet.com, BlueMountain Capital, Microsoft Research, etc.) and it looks to be gaining more mainstream acceptance.

Jet.com does a ton of F# advocacy here in Silicon Alley

Re: Ask HN: Is Python dying?

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually that's probably not accurate now that I think about it. Python is mostly used by quants and people figuring out what trades to make, as well as for some of the internal business tools. Whereas the people building the actual exchanges are probably using Java or C++.

"Finance" is such a broad term with respect to IT - you'll find anything if you look hard enough. The following is based on my experience only - I'm sure there will be lots on here with different experiences: * I've seen more C++/Java/C# than anything else, with a large legacy base of COBOL/RPG (yes, GMI, we're looking at you...). * Industrial-grade quant libs (for risk, P&L, models that need regulatory approval) ten…

I keep seeing Clojure come up in relation to banking, and occasionally in relation to hedge funds.

Re: Ask HN: Is Python dying?

#344
No, python's strong. It's just not a fad anymore?

Is PHP still cool? Not really. Yes, there was a day when it was. But guess what: from http://php.net/usage.php PHP: 244M sites, 2.1M IP addresses -- sites powered by PHP.

Python's not going anywhere. It might go out of style, but it's not going out of use.

... they are still trying to replace retiring cobol programmers.

Re: Ask HN: Is Python dying?

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is a tool like Perl dead when it's still heavily used on hundreds of thousands of machines all over the world? Is C dead as well? I would say, a tool is dead when it's no longer in wide use. Perl is hardly in that category quite yet.

It's dead because new projects aren't started in Perl unlike C.

Your point stated more generally is that while C is the best tool for a wide set of use cases, for each of the one-time use cases of Perl there is now a better option

Re: Ask HN: Is Python dying?

#347
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any Haskell coder knows that. Quoting myself > ... support polymorphism and extensibility. OOP isn't only the C# and Java view of the world.

Polymorphism and extensibility are features of OOP, but Haskell implements them in a rather different way to most OOP languages. I realise people disagree about what exactly should be considered OOP, but personally I think not including inheritance in the definition broadens the term beyond usefulness.

There is no disagreement, Smalltalk is the object system. Object-orientation was invented in Smalltalk. Other languages and systems are just poor imitations.

Re: Ask HN: Is Python dying?

#348
post #47

The moment a language is born is the moment it starts dying. No language lasts forever. My opinion: Python will outlive the three languages you list. But it's dying outside data science, and maybe even there. Optional typing can't compete with modern type inference, and there is too much dynamism in the existing Python ecosystem (even though it's so rarely used - there's not a monkeypatch culture like in Ruby - it's…

Python is just a fashion language.

If you want truly survivor languages look at Smalltalk. More than 30 years and still alive. Is not about modern type inference or dynamism... it's always about the people. And people in Python doesn't have that commitment with the technology, they are more like freeloaders.

Re: Ask HN: Is Python dying?

#350
post #63

The word for Python is mature . If fireworks aren't going off with every release, it's because it's past that phase of life. The only concern I have for Python is exactly the temptation to keep adding features and chasing other language's tail lights. I've recently gotten the chance to see a fairly novice programmer dip toes into some Python-based testing code, and it's definitely gotten pretty easy to make awfully m…

>The word for Python is mature Exactly, one could use the same criteria of the OP and conclude C is "dying", and how wrong they'd be. Just because it seems like there isn't new and hot stuff for Python doesn't mean it is actively used and sought after today. Perhaps it's strange because Python always seemed like the hot new scripting language thing until it now where it has become the well known scripting language th…

Python is dying because is the freeloader language of choice.

And you realize it when you explore the QUALITY of python libraries out there. You know what I mean. Quality in Python code sucks.

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