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We're hearing about troubles at Nest

businessinsider.com

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Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#141

Post by bobby_9x »

potatolicious wrote: post #114
xenadu02 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd also point out that Jobs was know to have become less of an asshole by the time he returned to Apple. Some people think it was reconnecting to his family that helped but who knows. You can demand greatness without being an asshole. You can tell someone the work they did isn't good enough without being an asshole. You can also truthfully review someone's bad code without being an asshole, for what it's worth. Bein…

> "Being an asshole != "telling it like it is" though most people confuse the two." This reminds me of an old quote. "People who are brutally honest generally enjoy the brutality more than the honesty."

I've also seen honesty being confused with being an 'asshole'.

You tell someone something they don't want to hear, but need to hear, and you are now known as an asshole.

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#142

Post by dwightgunning »

VikingCoder wrote: post #46
outside1234 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The really great thing about being in software in Silicon Valley is that you can more or less write your own meal ticket somewhere else. My advice to anyone else in this situation is to do just that. The first time abuse happens, just walk out, have a laugh about it (it reflects on them not you), and find another gig. There are a lot of great jobs out there. I have a lot of empathy now for all the crummy jobs where p…

...which is why we should all be particularly angry when companies in Silicon Valley agree to not try to recruit each-other's employees. It doesn't just hold down wages, it makes it more likely some employee is going to suffer abuse because they don't know what options they have.

I thought the 'agreements' were related to active poaching.

I wouldn't bat an eyelid hiring somebody who's already quit or is genuinely on the verge of doing so.

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#143

Post by gluecode »

I was a service provider during the initial days of launch and for two years afterwards. Loved the people. They were driven to ship good looking products. That was their downfall. At Nest they were (at least then) focused on how things looked. Nobody cared about how it worked, or how the product should be supported after shipping. Anyways, no regrets.

I met some of the best engineers and designers at Nest in the initial days. Afterwards, it became a A quality hiring B and B hiring C. Left hand did not know what the right was doing. The quality went down the drain. The management was terrifyingly dictatorial, top-down. Everyone was preparing for a Tony presentation/demo. They were afraid like kids do of the cruel headmaster.

I wish them nothing but the best.

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#144

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway6497 wrote: post #106
outside1234 wrote: post #11

I worked there. It was literally the worst experience of my career - and I have worked at all of the hardest charging blue chips and two successful startups - so it is not about high expectations - but abuse. I still wake up with something like PTSD occasionally from getting yelled at and bullied by Tony Fadell almost literally every day while I was there. I have a distance from it now -- and a way better job. It mad…

Feel terrible reading this. Is rest of the Alphabet upper management completely oblivious to what is happening inside Nest? Don't they care? Isn't leadership about doing the right thing. If people are getting abused, Alphabet/Google better do something about it. I thought Alphabet took pride in the kind of leadership traits they support and want their leaders to embody. I am pretty sure a ton of current/ex-Googlers w…

[deleted]

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#145

Post by justifier »

justifier wrote: post #128
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #12

Inevitablities from the Internet of things: Software glitches, personal data sold or served to the government, personal data stolen by a foreign government, hackers that freeze your house or crank up the heater till it breaks, hackers that spy on your kids with the cameras you installed, automated customer support lines. For some reason I get the feeling that adopting all of these "smart" devices actually makes me mo…

that seems an egregious misreading of the parable: At the Egyptian city of Naucratis, there was a famous old god, whose name was Theuth; the bird which is called the Ibis is sacred to him, and he was the inventor of many arts, such as arithmetic and calculation and geometry and astronomy and draughts and dice, but his great discovery was the use of letters. Now in those days the god Thamus was the king of the whole c…

timely..

"On this day (February 15) 2415 years ago, Socrates was sentenced to death by people of Athens. "

https://www.reddit.com/r/philosophy/comments/45wefo/on_this_...

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#146

Post by mpdehaan2 »

potatolicious wrote: post #58
asdfologist wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: how did someone with such an abusive management style lead his company to success? I'd think that his employees would just leave and go work elsewhere.

Most people (regardless of actual qualification) are bad at finding jobs, and for most people job-hunting is full of anxiety, dread, and in general just a thoroughly unpleasant process. As an industry we're also pretty terrible at recruiting - people who've figured out how to network effectively and come through the side doors do pretty well, but the bulk of the industry still pursues the model of "see job ad, send r…

Sometimes companies can be successful in spite of their leadership, because they have people that care about the users and products working under those conditions.

I just imagine how much BETTER those companies could be with more positive leadership though. It's a waste.

If Nest is this way under a tyrant, imagine how it really COULD be, and how many more interesting things they could create.

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#147

Post by pmarreck »

atonse wrote: post #8

I have a nest and it is a real piece of shit. I usually don't curse on HN but I can barely contain my hate for this product. My absolutely ugly, crappy old thermostat with a needle on it works WAY better than the nest (thankfully we have it upstairs where we sleep). When it's cold, we turn that needle up, and we get warm. With the nest, which is downstairs, when we're cold, we turn the nest up, we get weird "+2 hour"…

You're just 1 data point, but my data point is that my 2 Nests work absolutely fine, with the sole exception that they seem (lately?) to be too aggressive in turning down the heat when we're here and not aggressive enough in turning it off when we're not (did it used to be smarter at this?)

I like the ability to control them from the app as well as the Nest Report I get every month.

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#148

Post by sliverstorm »

asdfologist wrote: post #47
dboreham wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because behaving like this is moderately correlated with success. You don't have to be an asshole to succeed in business, but it can help.

Yes but I'm asking how. If you piss off your employees and they leave, how do you grow your business into a multibillion-dollar company?

You could ask the same questions about abusive intimate relationships.

Cribbing from that "book"- Destroy their sense of self-confidence & self-worth. Pick 'em young- they are easier to fool. Give them brief moments of sunshine to make them hope it'll get better. Promises. Threats. General megalomania.

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#149

Post by jonesb6 »

outside1234 wrote: post #26
brandon272 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still wake up with something like PTSD from getting yelled at and bullied by Tony Fadell. This is so depressing. My gut tells me that absolutely no one should have to put up with this in an employment situation, but what are your options, other than to either "deal with it" or face the income and career insecurity that comes with quitting?

The really great thing about being in software in Silicon Valley is that you can more or less write your own meal ticket somewhere else. My advice to anyone else in this situation is to do just that. The first time abuse happens, just walk out, have a laugh about it (it reflects on them not you), and find another gig. There are a lot of great jobs out there. I have a lot of empathy now for all the crummy jobs where p…

To abuse your metaphor a little bit not everyone has the ink or the paper to write a new meal ticket just like that.

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#150

Post by bravura »

outside1234 wrote: post #26
brandon272 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still wake up with something like PTSD from getting yelled at and bullied by Tony Fadell. This is so depressing. My gut tells me that absolutely no one should have to put up with this in an employment situation, but what are your options, other than to either "deal with it" or face the income and career insecurity that comes with quitting?

The really great thing about being in software in Silicon Valley is that you can more or less write your own meal ticket somewhere else. My advice to anyone else in this situation is to do just that. The first time abuse happens, just walk out, have a laugh about it (it reflects on them not you), and find another gig. There are a lot of great jobs out there. I have a lot of empathy now for all the crummy jobs where p…

The first time abuse happens, just walk out, have a laugh about it (it reflects on them not you), and find another gig.

With all due respect, why not look them directly in the eye and reply: "Don't speak to me that way" and wait?

That sort of response helps other employees see how inappropriate it is.

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