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We're hearing about troubles at Nest

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Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#121
post #107

I worked there. It was literally the worst experience of my career - and I have worked at all of the hardest charging blue chips and two successful startups - so it is not about high expectations - but abuse. I still wake up with something like PTSD occasionally from getting yelled at and bullied by Tony Fadell almost literally every day while I was there. I have a distance from it now -- and a way better job. It mad…

>"Fuck being Googley" (direct quote). I'd probably get fired for bursting out laughing.

This was down voted but I think it adds to the discussion.

Even in the "utopia" of SV (as some people seem to see it) boss can say something a mile over the line to Google executives and come out fine, but if an employee so much as puts a toe over.. it's almost like behind the hype we have the same bureaucracies and cultures as everyone else...

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nest thermostat is a dream compared to the smoke detector. The smoke detector goes off all the time -- without rhyme or reason. With a normal detector, you can just pull the battery if it refuses to shut off. With Nest, you actually need a screw driver to open the battery compartment to turn it off. So, when it decides to wake up the entire house at 3am (yes, the entire house, since they all go off in unison) you…

That's a horrible experience. But, to be fair, many newer structures have all their smoke detectors wired together so when one goes off, they all go off. I experienced that in my house, built in '97, which was extremely disorienting and stressful when it first happened. Growing up in a house built in the 80s, only the kitchen's smoke detector would go off if you burned something. I understand the perceived safety enh…

Yet industrial/commercial grade hard wired smoke detectors work just fine. I've worked in industrial facilities where there were thousands of smoke and fire detectors, and a zero false alarm rate. Yet, one day, when a HVAC unit overheated and smoked, all the right stuff happened. The local alarms went off, and the duct dampers slammed shut to contain the smoke. But because there wasn't confirmation from a second detector, or water flow in the sprinklers, the full emergency power off and building evacuation sequence didn't trip. We got to the HVAC unit and pulled its main switch before things escalated.

So why can't Nest meet that standard of performance?

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The really great thing about being in software in Silicon Valley is that you can more or less write your own meal ticket somewhere else. My advice to anyone else in this situation is to do just that. The first time abuse happens, just walk out, have a laugh about it (it reflects on them not you), and find another gig. There are a lot of great jobs out there. I have a lot of empathy now for all the crummy jobs where p…

...which is why we should all be particularly angry when companies in Silicon Valley agree to not try to recruit each-other's employees. It doesn't just hold down wages, it makes it more likely some employee is going to suffer abuse because they don't know what options they have.

Yep. Fuck all those companies.

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#124
UK residents, British Gas's Hive is a good alternative to Nest here. No attempt to magically learn, really well made hardware and apps.

The only software upgrade since I bought mine was a new "boost" button (turns heating on for 1 or 2 hours), which was the only thing I'd really wanted extra...

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#125
post #8

I have a nest and it is a real piece of shit. I usually don't curse on HN but I can barely contain my hate for this product. My absolutely ugly, crappy old thermostat with a needle on it works WAY better than the nest (thankfully we have it upstairs where we sleep). When it's cold, we turn that needle up, and we get warm. With the nest, which is downstairs, when we're cold, we turn the nest up, we get weird "+2 hour"…

It sounds like your Nest is broken or is not installed properly.

(The installation can be tricky; I put mine in myself and did it wrong at first because the existing wiring was mislabeled)

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#126
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've started using IFTTT to work around some of this. For example, I have it set home/away based on an IFTTT geofence. Unfortunately, IFTTT doesn't do home/away yet, but you can write your own trivial "app" to do it simply by registering as a dev and using the Maker channel in IFTTT.

This type of workarounds would make sense if we were dealing with a product built by a few makers and released as a set of blueprints online... This is produced by a company that Google, the most valuable company in the world, bought for $3.2B. It's weird that one needs to script around these issues.

That's a workaround of IFTTT limits not Nest

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: how did someone with such an abusive management style lead his company to success? I'd think that his employees would just leave and go work elsewhere.

Most people (regardless of actual qualification) are bad at finding jobs, and for most people job-hunting is full of anxiety, dread, and in general just a thoroughly unpleasant process. As an industry we're also pretty terrible at recruiting - people who've figured out how to network effectively and come through the side doors do pretty well, but the bulk of the industry still pursues the model of "see job ad, send r…

Also, most people are supporting a mortgage + one/two kids + spouse. It is easy for a person with FU money to just quit the job on a whim, and search for a new job. A majority of software engineers are still scared of being unemployed. Imagine being without a job in Silicon valley for a few months (high mortgage/rent + kids + spouse). Your savings will deplete fast; It is kind of scary and it is the biggest reason why people put up with abuse till they find a way out.

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#128

Inevitablities from the Internet of things: Software glitches, personal data sold or served to the government, personal data stolen by a foreign government, hackers that freeze your house or crank up the heater till it breaks, hackers that spy on your kids with the cameras you installed, automated customer support lines. For some reason I get the feeling that adopting all of these "smart" devices actually makes me mo…

that seems an egregious misreading of the parable:

    At the Egyptian city of Naucratis, there was a 
    famous old god, whose name was Theuth; the bird 
    which is called the Ibis is sacred to him, and he 
    was the inventor of many arts, such as arithmetic 
    and calculation and geometry and astronomy and 
    draughts and dice, but his great discovery was the 
    use of letters. 

    Now in those days the god Thamus was the king of the 
    whole country of Egypt; and he dwelt in that great 
    city of Upper Egypt which the Hellenes call Egyptian 
    Thebes, and the god himself is called by them Ammon. 
    To him came Theuth and showed his inventions, desiring 
    that the other Egyptians might be allowed to have the 
    benefit of them; he enumerated them, and Thamus enquired 
    about their several uses, and praised some of them and 
    censured others, as he approved or disapproved of them. 

    It would take a long time to repeat all that Thamus 
    said to Theuth in praise or blame of the various arts. 
    But when they came to letters, This, said Theuth, will 
    make the Egyptians wiser and give them better memories; 
    it is a specific both for the memory and for the wit. 
    
    Thamus replied: O most ingenious Theuth, the parent or 
    inventor of an art is not always the best judge of the 
    utility or inutility of his own inventions to the users 
    of them. 
  
    And in this instance, you who are the father of letters, 
    from a paternal love of your own children have been led 
    to attribute to them a quality which they cannot have; 
    for this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness 
    in the learners' souls, because they will not use their 
    memories; they will trust to the external written 
    characters and not remember of themselves. 

    The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to 
    memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples 
    not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be 
    hearers of many things and will have learned nothing; 
    they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know 
    nothing; they will be tiresome company, having the show of 
    wisdom without the reality.
from Plato's Phaedrus(o)

much different than claiming Socrate's criticised reading and writing

it's a parable, and one i read as intending to warn people of technology's ability to encourage the thinking that one can inform without comprehending

memory without understanding

mastery without failure

this reading allows for readers to be able to ask questions

(o) http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/phaedrus.html

Re: We're hearing about troubles at Nest

#130

The problem with "smart" anything is that the more features you add the more places there is to break. The coffee maker in my office has a color touch screen. What advantage is a color touch screen over a "dumb" mechanical switch? None, but I am sure its more likely to break and much more expensive to fix/replace. Yes, the touch screen has one button - make coffee. Then it plays animations while your coffee is brewin…

Major portions of our economy function through planned obsolescence and doing everything possible in design to make old products look "old", even though functionality hasn't really changed from the old model. Think car manufacturing.
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