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Too many people have peed in the pool

stephenfry.com

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Re: Too many people have peed in the pool

#201

Post by chris_wot »

nly wrote: post #153
zkhalique wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emojis are fine. But I remember the first times I started seeing "LOL" and "ROTFLMAO". And I realized that the person wasn't really laughing, but they were quietly typing that on the keyboard. If you think about it, before AIM and online chat (way before texting), people hardly ever faked their emotions so much. I mean, you could fake a small laugh, but you didn't outright say that you're rolling on the floor laughin…

It's exceptionally rare to read the transcript of a conversation or story and to physically burst out laughing. A huge part of humour is in the context ("you had to be there") and the delivery. The current use of "lol" and "lmao" just makes a whole lot more sense than their hijacked and literal definition... it's about replacing what would normally be subtle visual cues and gestures, which signal acknowledgement and/…

Sometimes using shorthand can be disasterous for those getting to grips with it. I remember reading some time ago that someone's daughter had to explain to her mother that her friend was upset because when she wrote "I'm so sorry for your loss, lol" that lol does not stand for "lots of love".

Re: Too many people have peed in the pool

#202

Post by moron4hire »

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #148
Kiro wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you from? I'm very surprised anyone would even consider eating hotdog without ketchup so it must be a cultural thing.

It's a capital crime in Chicago, if you do it in public. That's where the joking about it comes from; ketchup on hot dogs is one of those things that people take jestingly serious with tongue firmly planted in cheek at all times. Nobody actually cares, nobody's actually going to kill you in Chicago despite my joke, but people interpret the joshing as caring and demeaning because nobody can actually take a joke any mo…

See, you're part of the problem. You think you understand my friend's tone better now that I'm relating it to you better than I did at the time that I experienced it. You don't believe my version of the story, even though the only evidence you have is my telling of it. You've treated me as if I'm lying to you, yet you don't just come out and say it. This is the very definition of passive aggressive behavior.

Just because something is post hoc declared as a joke doesn't mean it was a joke. And just because something is styled as a joke, doesn't mean it is funny. I don't have a problem with taking jokes. Most people just suck at humor. It's not an easy thing to tell a joke. And besides, most people are just using "it was a joke" as an excuse to cover up for some serious comment they made that went over like a lead balloon.

Re: Too many people have peed in the pool

#203

Post by rodgerd »

KerryJones wrote: post #97
rblstr wrote: post #86

I watched the BAFTAs with my girlfriend last night and I have to say, when Stephen made that comment we both said 'woah that's a bit mean' out loud. Of course, being the general public we're not aware of Mr Fry's relationship with the lady who won the award but from an outside perspective it came across as a bit bullying. I only found out today about the twitter backlash and I don't think it should be lumped in with…

This is the problem. He shouldn't have to clarify his relationship, he shouldn't have to explain everything. In essence, that destroys jokes. It's not our job to know, but as we should assume innocence until proven guilty we should assume friendliness before assuming ridicule. If Beaven had a problem -- let her handle it. She's a big girl, we're not her collective parents.

> This is the problem.

The problem is that Stephen Fry loves to dish it out, then has a petulant hissy fit because he can't take it. He loves to claim there's "no right not to be offended" - except when it comes to his precious sensibilities, apparently.

Re: Too many people have peed in the pool

#204

Post by xiaoma »

rblstr wrote: post #123
KerryJones wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the problem. He shouldn't have to clarify his relationship, he shouldn't have to explain everything. In essence, that destroys jokes. It's not our job to know, but as we should assume innocence until proven guilty we should assume friendliness before assuming ridicule. If Beaven had a problem -- let her handle it. She's a big girl, we're not her collective parents.

Without clarifying it it looks like he stood on stage in front of a bunch of rich celebrities and slagged off the winner of an award for not wearing conventional dress to an award show. I'm all for offensive comedy, but this wasn't a joke, he was basically slagging her off in public, live on television to a room full of people. Without context of their relationship it really looks like bullying. That's completely dif…

The thing is, it wasn't their business to care. They had no part in it or knowledge of the people involved but they leapt into avenger mode anyway. And a lot of their responses were way outside of civil interactions.

This is one of the very least appealing changes in Anglophone culture over the past 10 years. The world would be far better off if Twitter made personal attacks, doxxing, etc (except possibly against politicians) a TOS violation that lead to account closure.

The problem is, Twitter would be much worse off. They literally profit from hatred and anger.

Re: Too many people have peed in the pool

#205

Post by rictic »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #157
chasing wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no friendly way to say it, the mass market are morons... I hate this super-condescending attitude. Even if you do happen to be smarter than the average bear (which, don't pat yourself on the back yet: there may be things these "morons" know way more about than you do), it's still asshole-ish to assume that everyone else just be completely dismissed...

> Even if you do happen to be smarter than the average bear > it's still asshole-ish to assume that everyone else just be completely dismissed... Devil's advocate: If you're above average intelligence, you're smarter than a majority of the populace by definition. Why would you not then dismiss the thoughts and ideas of those less educated? One person's condescension is another person's logic.

Because your brain is going to lead you into thinking that your ingroup are the smart minority and your outgroups and people that you don't understand are the simple minded majority.

Re: Too many people have peed in the pool

#206

Post by madaxe_again »

marcosdumay wrote: post #189
chasing wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no friendly way to say it, the mass market are morons... I hate this super-condescending attitude. Even if you do happen to be smarter than the average bear (which, don't pat yourself on the back yet: there may be things these "morons" know way more about than you do), it's still asshole-ish to assume that everyone else just be completely dismissed...

What?!? Masses usually act like morons. That's a well known phenomenon, old enough to become jokes in movies, and the entire audience (a mass) to get it. When people are acting smartly, they each do different things, and don't form a mass at all.

Or is it the other way around, that people act smartly and rationally individually but when taken as a whole become a singular moronic entity?

See also: corporations, nations.

Re: Too many people have peed in the pool

#208

Post by abakker »

chasing wrote: post #134
AJ007 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no friendly way to say it, the mass market are morons. It might be derogatory jokes, but this can also include things like spreading urban legends which were debunked four decades ago. Just like Usenet and countless other online communities, what starts a a small group of fairly privileged and elite eventually degrades in to garbage as the reach increases. This is not so much an overall size issue but a rela…

> There is no friendly way to say it, the mass market are morons... I hate this super-condescending attitude. Even if you do happen to be smarter than the average bear (which, don't pat yourself on the back yet: there may be things these "morons" know way more about than you do), it's still asshole-ish to assume that everyone else just be completely dismissed...

I believe this was the article's point - that Fry no longer wanted to partake in discussion where people were getting offended on other people's behalf. Its not the best way to engage his comment.

Re: Too many people have peed in the pool

#209

Post by slig »

Paul-ish wrote: post #116
seren wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it will prevail in the end, but I think that Reddit approach by splitting the community in small subgroups/communities has a better chance to last in the long run. Of course, you'll create feuds between communities but at least it is somewhat confined and not always spilling in the common public space. Unfortunately it also greatly increases the echo chamber / filter bubble but it seems you can not ha…

I have been waiting a long time for someone to use lessons learned from recommender systems to build a social media site like reddit, but rather than having users group themselves up, they would be shown posts algorithmically, based on how they have voted in the past. For example, if I vote for a lot of pro EFF posts, maybe I will see more posts about free software or something like that. This also allows the site to…

Reddit used to have that years ago.

> reddit is a source for what's new and popular on the web -- personalized for you. Your votes train a filter, so let reddit know what you liked and disliked, because you'll begin to be recommended links filtered to your tastes. All of the content on reddit is submitted and voted on by users like you

https://web.archive.org/web/20061117074302/http://reddit.com...

Re: Too many people have peed in the pool

#210

Post by jsmthrowaway »

moron4hire wrote: post #202
jsmthrowaway wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a capital crime in Chicago, if you do it in public. That's where the joking about it comes from; ketchup on hot dogs is one of those things that people take jestingly serious with tongue firmly planted in cheek at all times. Nobody actually cares, nobody's actually going to kill you in Chicago despite my joke, but people interpret the joshing as caring and demeaning because nobody can actually take a joke any mo…

See, you're part of the problem. You think you understand my friend's tone better now that I'm relating it to you better than I did at the time that I experienced it. You don't believe my version of the story, even though the only evidence you have is my telling of it. You've treated me as if I'm lying to you, yet you don't just come out and say it. This is the very definition of passive aggressive behavior. Just bec…

Actually, I believe your version completely and don't think you're lying at all from your perspective. What makes you think I feel otherwise?

This is an odd, and overly defensive, reaction to something that you've clearly misinterpreted. (That sounds familiar.)

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