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The Language Barrier Is About to Fall

wsj.com

31–40 of 62 posts

Re: The Language Barrier Is About to Fall

#31
post #6

Yet another journalist who doesn't understand how languages actually work. Other languages aren't just "English with different words and syntax". A single word can have dozens of different meanings, the set of different meanings of a word needn't be the same across languages. And even if you know the context the meaning doesn't have to be unambiguous. A perfect translation would need to recognize plausible ambiguitie…

Even English isn't English as innuendo and alternate meanings cloud understanding of it constantly. Even the simple phrase "I'd hit that" means any number of things depending on the speaker and the context.

This doesn't even touch on how sometimes British English needs to be "translated" to American English, like in the case of Harry Potter being adapted with many words changed.

Likewise it's almost impossible to express the nuance of something like "that's so fucking fucked" in a language lacking a word of similar versatility.

I'd argue there's no such thing as a "perfect translation". That's why people who translate novels have a considerable amount of work to do to pick, from all possible translations, the one that best represents the tone and intent of the original author.

I still think it's possible to come up with a passable translation automatically in real-time. It's inevitable.

Re: The Language Barrier Is About to Fall

#32
post #2

Compare this line from the WSJ article: > A decade from now, I would predict, everyone reading this article will be able to converse in dozens of foreign languages, eliminating the very concept of a language barrier. with these excepts from The Guardian at http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/feb/10/texas-regi... (referenced two days ago on HN at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11077168 ): > Y'all have a T…

To be fair, having not tried Siri for a year or two, it has gotten much better at dealing with the Glasgow accent ; ) I recall around 2000 having to fake a US accent in order to get an airline's voice response system to put me through to a human.

You probably have to fake an accent to communicate with some American call-centres as well.

Re: The Language Barrier Is About to Fall

#33
I live abroad and speak far from fluently in a foreign language. I'm personally invested in machine translation improving, and I really hope it does.

> Today’s translation tools were developed by computing more than a billion translations a day for over 200 million people. With the exponential growth in data, that number of translations will soon be made in an afternoon, then in an hour. The machines will grow exponentially more accurate and be able to parse the smallest detail. Whenever the machine translations get it wrong, users can flag the error—and that data, too, will be incorporated into future attempts.

If this is the reasoning that we will be there in 10 years, it is ridiculously optimistic. I'm pretty sure that there is a exponential fall off from common phrases to a long tail of more nuanced, not as often uttered language. A million people punching in "where is the bathroom?" is not going to make the machine know how to impart the acerbic wit of a phrase from a Palahniuk book to a Japanese business man. Good luck finding someone skilled enough in both languages and cultures to be able to correct the error.

Real skills in multiple languages requires an intellect to parse the situations. While I personally hope that will one day be achievable with AI, I have to think that we are still a long way off.

Re: The Language Barrier Is About to Fall

#34
post #19

> You could host a dinner party with eight people at the table speaking eight different languages, and the voice in your ear will always be whispering the one language you want to hear. And at this hypothetical dinner party, what would the earpieces whisper in English (or most other languages) when the Japanese guests said いただきます? Some words just don't have a translation in other languages. https://www.google.com/sea…

> Some words just don't have a translation in other languages.

Generally speaking I'm inclined to agree with you but you chose a bad example. The earpieces could translate it as "time to eat!" or "thank you for the food.". It's not a literal translation of course but a lot of the work involved with translations is about finding the right substitutes for these kind of phrases. In japanese there's a lot of mundane phrases that could better illustrate your point, for example how would an earpiece translate 好きです。 as a stand-alone phrase? It could do so literally but it would probably sound very unnatural. To do a natural translation the device would need to be understanding the conversation as a whole and that would be way more difficult to implement since it will involve some actual intelligence :)

Re: The Language Barrier Is About to Fall

#35

I suspect real-time machine translation is within reach if the speakers are trained to use a restricted subset of their native language. Moreover, I suspect that this approach could be both realistic and useful. This restricted subset situation is de facto already the case; existing tools don't handle regional dialects and colloquialisms. I just tried "嘘じゃねいぞ" (uso ja nei zo!) in Google Translate and it came up with…

Google Translate can't handle even perfectly idiomatic Japanese. It's so bad I had to write my own translation aid software (shameless plug: http://ichi.moe).

For example, Google can't handle an extremely common Japanese word なんて. It translates it as "Nantes" (the city in France). Even though the city name would certainly be written in katakana and not hiragana.

Re: The Language Barrier Is About to Fall

#36
post #12

It must work offline. One of the reasons is that tourists often don't buy a data plan (imagine a tour of Europe with a different country every couple of days) and wifi is not where you might need machine translation most, on the road.

Many European mobile contracts allow a bucket of roaming data (400MB per month for me). Not sure what's the status for prepaid SIM cards that tourists from outside of Europe would likely have.

Also, the roaming costs in EU are regulated, with likely price decreases also in the future: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_roaming_regulat...

Re: The Language Barrier Is About to Fall

#37
真有意思。I see a lot of dismissals of the projections in this article. Thirty years ago, just as I was working for several years as a Chinese-English interpreter, I would have agreed with all those dismissals. I no longer agree. As some of the subcomments here have pointed out, all that automated translation and interpretation have to do is become less expensive than either a) learning the relevant language yourself or b) hiring good-quality human translators and interpreters. Automated translation and interpretation is already well along that path.

A crucial skill for a professional interpreter or a casual language-learner is "lexicalization," figuring out what the correct match is between what is possibly a phrase in one language but only a single morpheme that is part of a larger word in another language. But the huge advantage automated translation solutions have is shared learning and long-lasting memory. If the lexicalization is built into a database, for example a database kept by Apple, Google, IBM, or some other multinational provider of translation services, that learned information can be deployed in products over and over and over again. In the end, that's all that it takes for automated translation and interpretation to do better at equal cost (or as well at less cost) compared to human language-learning or human language services. I got out of interpreting for a living years ago, because I finally came around to the understanding of how little I could compete with the worldwide efforts made with new technology to tackle language problems. I still think learning natural modern human languages is a very intellectually enriching activity, and all my children do that, but we expect to live in a world a decade from now with very good real-time interpreting and translation systems for a wide variety of language pairings.

Re: The Language Barrier Is About to Fall

#38
I thought this was about how the entire world is getting to a point where they are able to speak and understand basic English.

There are certainly countries and population groups that do not speak English well, but it has changed significantly the last 10 years.

I wonder if we will get there before 100% accurate automatic translation.

Re: The Language Barrier Is About to Fall

#39
I think people are overestimating the word "language barrier". People often forget that the language barrier is not a one-sided problem. Communication is a collaborative effort (unless we're just spying them). I bet that something like keyword spotting for commonly used 3000 words is already pretty feasible, and that would greatly reduce the language barrier. Perfect translation is neither possible nor necessary to induce mutual effort.

(By the way, I've seen so many US tourists in Europe who don't even try to speak a single word in their language. They don't seem to know that a simple "thank you" in their native tongue would greatly reduce the barrier and change their sentiment towards the US. In this sense, I believe that technology is more or less neutral to mutual understanding, because not knowing a language (or the idea that not knowing a language is acceptable) can have adverse effects.)

Edit: a few grammatical errors. Damn my Japaneseness!

Re: The Language Barrier Is About to Fall

#40

"...in ten years time." To quote XKCD's translation (sic!), "we haven't finished inventing it yet, but when we do, it'll be awesome." https://xkcd.com/678/ This is the same tired old story that keeps on making rounds for the sixth decade now - "machine translation kind of sucks now, but it will be solved within the next decade!!!!!!!!1!" This is still very much a current paper - note the publication date: http://www.…

To be fair, translation today is significantly better than sixty years ago. For one, the output is often usable as-is, and with some tweaking is even better. I've known several people that have learned English by leaning heavily on automated translation until they got a firmer handle on it. If you tried that in the 1970s you'd still be trying to figure out what the word "the" means.

Sure, it's better - in the "pre-MT" and "post-MT" systems (although it's called "crowdsourcing" these days). For standalone MT, the output is just-about-recognizable; nowhere near the babel-fish-like gadget WSJ is presenting as "just about to happen."
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