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The iPhone obsession

quirksmode.org

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Re: The iPhone obsession

#41

Post by NalandaU »

I had a Nokia phone for years and then a Motorala phone and then a couple of windows mobile phones from HTC and others. But, in none of them I have ever downloaded an app, leave alone having the interest to code up an app. With my iPod touch however (don't want to deal with ATT) I have downloaded dozens of apps and feel good to code on it (though I had to buy my first Mac for this and had a hard time with Objective C's syntax).

I used to work in the windows mobile development team at Microsoft and at that time used to have a dismissive tone about iPhone and said it was just an expensive version of HTC Touch. But, once I started using it and downloading apps, I found the real difference. It is in a whole different league and engineers in other phone companies know that. (I can speak for atleast one of them)

Re: The iPhone obsession

#42

Post by jfoutz »

mos1 wrote: post #36
sykora wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users who use platform X and browser Y where your app doesn't work will simply switch to another app which does the same thing that was written by someone who _does_ care about all browsers. Those users won't complain to you, they'll just switch. Your loss.

I was with you until you said 'Your loss.' That bit of snark ignores the reality that a developer has resource constraints, and they constantly have to decide how best to deploy their time, money and energy. Failing to address some platforms might well be a big win. Claiming it's a definite loss is absurd.

The original article's point was about progressive enhancement. If you're starting a project that requires, say canvas, it is your loss. If you start with tables and images, the site will work on a lot of browsers.

Re: The iPhone obsession

#43

Post by fab13n »

Sales figures are not relevant. What matter are:

- proportion of devices currently subscribed to a data plan;

- time spent online / number of pageviews per device;

- for businesses who don't plan to be profitable in the next couple of months, what OSes will be actually used for mobile web surfing in the future;

- which users have been trained by an AppStore-like system to easily spend money online.

Nobody in his right mind tries to surf with Windows Mobile if they can avoid it; the vast majority of Nokia or Sony-Ericcson phones, those which constitute the bulk of their sales, are barely usable surfing platforms, and are generally not sold with unlimited data plan; Spending money on Palm support supposes that you bet on their middle-term survival, a bet not everyone is willing to make; RIM is totally specialized into the corporate market, and is relevant if and only if you target this audience.

Re: The iPhone obsession

#44

Post by gizmo »

jbox wrote: post #30
pieter wrote: post #11

Lots of mobile browsers have iPhone in their UA strings to work around browser detects that obsessed web developers have set up. Do all traffic market share reporters work around that problem? Most probably do, but we can’t be sure. Which browsers do that?

None. Having worked on mobile web applications that serve a wide range of devices, I can honestly say that this is not the case. I would challange ppk to cite examples of this behaviour.

Actually, you can change your user agent with Opera Mobile if I'm not mistaken.

Re: The iPhone obsession

#45

Post by mrduncan »

For instance, SMS only really took off with the Obama campaign, while the rest of the world became addicted to it years ago.

Anyone happen to have stats to support that, I find it very hard to believe based on (admittedly anecdotal) evidence.

Re: The iPhone obsession

#46

Post by jsz0 »

AndrewDucker wrote: post #32
jsz0 wrote: post #26

Wouldn't it be hard to target Nokia/RIM/etc? They have dozens of handsets. Different screen resolutions and even different rendering engines. Apple just made it easier by keeping the render/resolution consistent for the last 3 years. The other factor is Nokia/RIM/Microsoft really lagged behind Apple, Palm and Android in offering a modern standards compliant browser on their handsets. I think the assumption is people…

I have Opera on my Nokia mobile. Just as I did on my last Nokia mobile. And yes, mobile phones come in different shapes and sizes, just like monitors come in different shapes and sizes. Design flexibly, so that your app is usable by people accessing it from anywhere.

Any phone's browser(s) should be capable of displaying the regular non-mobile site. I assume the author is referring to the iPhone specific/enhanced sites out there.

Re: The iPhone obsession

#47

Post by rimantas »

pieter wrote: post #11

Lots of mobile browsers have iPhone in their UA strings to work around browser detects that obsessed web developers have set up. Do all traffic market share reporters work around that problem? Most probably do, but we can’t be sure. Which browsers do that?

This quote does not make much sense at all. Looks like ppk is so blinded by iPhone hate that he did not even bother to find out how these thing work.

iPhone was the first mobile phone which made ordinary web usable on mobile device for me—and that's for sites without no optimization whatsoever. On the other hand most of optimization which makes web experience even more enjoyable on iPhone can be very simple (as simple as META element without any browser sniffing involved) and unobtrusive in the sense, that it does not affect other browsers.

If your mobile browser cannot render simple website no UA faking will help it. And I lay the blame solely on those browsers, not the webdevs who gave up trying to make sense of them.

What about calling mobile browser vendors to step up their game, instead of calling developers morons and wanting them to design to the lowest common denominator?

Re: The iPhone obsession

#48

Post by vetinari »

KirinDave wrote: post #29
garply wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nokia, as far as I'm aware, is the biggest cell phone company in the world. Here in China, when I see someone pull out a cell phone, it's a decent bet that it will be a Nokia.

And those phones have a web experience worth targeting? I understand that Nokia has a lot of phones out there, but the vast majority seem only tangentially related to the discussion of smartphone apps. It's fairly easy to kick together a "mobile" version of a site. Just use these simple CSS rules: img { display: none; } body { hideous-eyebleach: true; } For many phones, just having 0 style, 0 images and a few text fi…

Well, given that Nokia S60v3 browser _is_ webkit, I don't think that the results with your suggested stylesheet would be satisfactory. Would you accept it on your iphone?

Re: The iPhone obsession

#49

Post by seldo »

So the IE6 comparison is definitely the right way to sting developers into action. Nobody wants to end up being That Guy from 2001 again.

There's a few differences though. IE6 did a few things better (their box-sizing model is still more sane than the standard, box heights were nicer if unpredictable). But many things it just did differently, for no very sensible reason.

Mobile Safari isn't like that -- it's pretty damn standards compliant (tried a second ago, it passes most but not all of ACID2). That means anything you write that is completely standards-compliant will work, without modification, on any other similarly compliant browser, mobile or otherwise.

What is does do is a bunch of mobile-specific enhancement -- the viewport sizing, css gradients, etc. are all highly useful for the unusual constraints of mobile web development.

So, as PPK suggests, build the website in another browser first. Then enhance it for Safari using their extensions -- not the other way around.

Re: The iPhone obsession

#50

Post by ronnier »

chime wrote: post #2

First time I heard Quirksmode curse like a sailor. Regardless, the reason I can't develop for a Nokia, Blackberry, or HTC is because I don't have a Nokia, Blackberry, or HTC. I have an iPhone. It's pretty easy to develop webapps for it because if it looks good in desktop Safari, it will probably look good in iPhone Safari. I don't even know the browsers that other phones have. I know Opera Mini is on many phones and…

>First time I heard Quirksmode curse like a sailor.

You must not follow him on twitter: http://twitter.com/ppk

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