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Why I don't like smartphones

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Re: Why I don't like smartphones

#81

Post by qb45 »

nextos wrote: post #44
barnabee wrote: post #23

Most people don't want or need root access to their smartphone but will complain (no matter how much you tell them security is their responsibility when acting as root) when installing random software they found on the internet results in their banking details being stolen followed swiftly by all their money. There are products you can buy in pretty much every category if you need a general purpose computing device,…

I would believe (partially) in the argument of security, if locking down phones was not used for what, in my view, is a clear case of planned obsolescence. Phones are unique devices in generally requiring you to buy new hardware after 2 or 3 years if you want up-to-date software. This is wasteful and infuriating. My 13 year old PC is still able to run the latest version of Ubuntu, and does a pretty good job at it. I…

> Phones are unique devices in generally requiring you to buy new hardware after 2 or 3 years if you want up-to-date software.

That's totally software's fault. I find it kinda hilarious that my sister is looking for a new smartphone because her few years old Samsung is laggy while all she does is chatting with friends and watching their pics - things people did on dog slow PCs from the '90s.

Re: Why I don't like smartphones

#82

Post by cableshaft »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #24

I don't really see how some of his points support his position. e.g. I don't own a smartphone, because it's a consumption device rather than both consumption and production, is just silly. So is a photoalbum, so is a book, so is a TV, so is a music player. A smartphone is all in one and it's incredibly useful. Beyond that, it is in ways a production device. It's a messaging device, a photo and video taking device, it…

Almost every app (and many games) being made nowadays are thin clients making api calls where all the work is done on the server.

I don't like it. I like having games from decades ago and still being able to play them long after the companies are dead and its employees working on other things.

On my own time I try to come up with software that can run entirely without the need to communicate with servers, or even without internet access.

The only problem with that is the software becomes that much easier to pirate, but oh well, I guess. I care more about the longevity of my work for my personal projects than whether or not I'm going to make the megabucks with them.

And honestly, for a few games I've worked on for companies in the past, pirates are the only thing keeping those games accessible at all.

Re: Why I don't like smartphones

#83

Post by barnabee »

logicrook wrote: post #68
barnabee wrote: post #23

Most people don't want or need root access to their smartphone but will complain (no matter how much you tell them security is their responsibility when acting as root) when installing random software they found on the internet results in their banking details being stolen followed swiftly by all their money. There are products you can buy in pretty much every category if you need a general purpose computing device,…

I always find fantastic how these kinds of arguments can be made blatantly ignoring that they basically are a plea for authoritarian governments. Do you realize how bad basic freedoms are? Most people are better off without them, because many would harm themselves. And can you imagine the gains if instead of letting people speak for themselves, we has a single entity vetting everyone's discourse? Man, dictatorship is…

The argument is "it's an allowable trade off for a hardware product to be locked down and for consumers to decide whether they still want to buy it given the restrictions" not "all hardware must be locked down and all software approved by corporations/government"- the latter is clearly not OK.

Re: Why I don't like smartphones

#84

Post by t0mislav »

Philipp__ wrote: post #10

I liked many facts that are provided in this text. Kinda feel the same way about many of those things. But! I kinda do not have courage to leave smartphone and go for standard cheap cellphone ala 15 years ago. Because I would then have to carry an iPod with me... So music and emails, (I am still student so it is relatively rare occasion to have to respond from phone) are reasons why I am still bind to it. But time I…

> When you look at all those apps people install, like 5 different IM apps, 5 social network apps, 10 games, 5 productivity apps... like what the hell?

I agree, this is so wrong, broken. It shouldn't be like that.

Re: Why I don't like smartphones

#85

Post by raesene9 »

jhasse wrote: post #73
raesene9 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to provide some examples of iOS Viruses and exploits that install themselves and are un-removable due to restricted user experience? I have never seen any of those before.

No problem: http://blog.binamuse.com/2014/09/coregraphics-memory-corrupt... If you got an older iPhone, it's best not to open random PDFs anymore.

neat bug, although only the iPhone 4 and earlier would be unpatchable for it, and those devices are pretty much stuffed from a security standpoint anyway as they're vulnerable to the old DFU mode jailbreaks...

I was kind of thinking more of examples of malware where people were actually using the lockdown of the OS to stop users removing it, but hey I said exploits and that's an exploit.

Re: Why I don't like smartphones

#86

Post by compactmani »

joosters wrote: post #39

This person would be happier moving to a pre-computer environment - take a look at their pet hates: https://violations.devever.net/products - including: * AMD x86 CPUs * Intel x86 CPUs ...leaving, ARM CPUs, I guess? Windows ARM machines are also on the list. (And surely ARMs should be blacklisted according to his reasoning; he is unhappy with Intel's secure enclave, while ARM has similar features). Some people will n…

I'm not sure why distaste in x86 suggests one prefers pre-computing environments unless you really internalize x86 as computing, which many people don't.

Re: Why I don't like smartphones

#87

Post by jkirsteins »

barnabee wrote: post #63
izacus wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does having an ability to gain root access have to do with installing random malware apps? You can easily have a device with disabled root access and a curated store as a default and make gaining root access an added functionality (similarly how Android Nexus phones require you to issue a fastboot oem unlock command). Where does this idea that the only alternative to not having some non-technical people install…

I think it would be hard in practice to allow root access but limit it to people who know what they are doing and understand the risk. People will follow arbitrary instructions to modify settings and enter commands (that they don't understand) for the most trivial things and from the most untrusted groups (for example: to install pirated software, to customise their user interface, etc.), and will merrily click past…

> I think it would be hard in practice to allow root access but limit it

This is largely solved, I think, by the current system. People who know/want/understand the risks, can have a rooted phone. But it is not trivial for the average layperson.

Re: Why I don't like smartphones

#88

Post by nextos »

qb45 wrote: post #81
nextos wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would believe (partially) in the argument of security, if locking down phones was not used for what, in my view, is a clear case of planned obsolescence. Phones are unique devices in generally requiring you to buy new hardware after 2 or 3 years if you want up-to-date software. This is wasteful and infuriating. My 13 year old PC is still able to run the latest version of Ubuntu, and does a pretty good job at it. I…

> Phones are unique devices in generally requiring you to buy new hardware after 2 or 3 years if you want up-to-date software. That's totally software's fault. I find it kinda hilarious that my sister is looking for a new smartphone because her few years old Samsung is laggy while all she does is chatting with friends and watching their pics - things people did on dog slow PCs from the '90s.

I think this is ultimately a consequence of locked down hardware.

If manufacturers released drivers for your sister's device, your sister would be able to install a different operating system which would satisfy her needs.

Re: Why I don't like smartphones

#89

Post by jerf »

logicrook wrote: post #68
barnabee wrote: post #23

Most people don't want or need root access to their smartphone but will complain (no matter how much you tell them security is their responsibility when acting as root) when installing random software they found on the internet results in their banking details being stolen followed swiftly by all their money. There are products you can buy in pretty much every category if you need a general purpose computing device,…

I always find fantastic how these kinds of arguments can be made blatantly ignoring that they basically are a plea for authoritarian governments. Do you realize how bad basic freedoms are? Most people are better off without them, because many would harm themselves. And can you imagine the gains if instead of letting people speak for themselves, we has a single entity vetting everyone's discourse? Man, dictatorship is…

The human brain comes with built-in hardware for dealing with social challenges. It is probably not 100% trustworthy for large-scale society because of the recent appearance of such a structure [1], but it exists.

There is obviously no such built-in hardware support for analyzing software-imposed risks. If such hardware existed, it's not actually the consumer's behavior that would change, it would be the software producers, because the software engineers would feel that bit of their brain poking them and produce much less insecure software in the first place.

So, I don't think the argument translates as well as you say in real life.

[1]: Proof: There exist a large number of people who disagree with $YOU about the optimum nature of government. You are self-evidently correct, of course, and they are wrong. So a lot of people are running on self-evidently faulty hardware for large-scale society.

Re: Why I don't like smartphones

#90

Post by icebraining »

akashtndn wrote: post #67
IkmoIkmo wrote: post #24

I don't really see how some of his points support his position. e.g. I don't own a smartphone, because it's a consumption device rather than both consumption and production, is just silly. So is a photoalbum, so is a book, so is a TV, so is a music player. A smartphone is all in one and it's incredibly useful. Beyond that, it is in ways a production device. It's a messaging device, a photo and video taking device, it…

The point about it being almost exclusively a consumption device might be, in a way, extreme but not at all silly. " It's a messaging device, a photo and video taking device, it's great for email, I record audio for my college classes on it etc." Majority of what you are referring to as productive tasks are merely the users consuming various services on offer. Although they are useful devices, I agree with the opinio…

Majority of what you are referring to as productive tasks are merely the users consuming various services on offer.

If we're going to reduce taking photos to a consumption of a service just because they go to Instagram or whatever, aren't we just consuming a service when we host an application we wrote on Heroku or AWS or DigitalOcean? Aren't we just consuming a service when we share code using Github or even when we send patches over an hosted email service?

Where do you draw the line?

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