Wikimedia removes the Diary of Anne Frank due to copyright law • Hacker News Board

Re: Wikimedia removes the Diary of Anne Frank due to copyright law

#131

Post by philipov » Sat, Feb 13, 2016, 2:38 PM UTC

vacri wrote: post #88

Nutmog wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't find one with a specific policy on that issue, then aren't there any parties aiming to reform the 2-party bias of the electoral system so that minority voices can be heard at all?

Well, in real terms, voting for a party that isn't democrat or republican in the US is a waste of time. The idea that eventually there'd be enough of a groundswell of support that another party would even become competitive? It just isn't going to happen with the way the US electoral system works. The Lib Dems in the UK have been fighting a similar fight for decades and still have little-to-no representation despite…

And if it were, one of the two political parties would appropriate the cause as its own anyway, absorbing the minority party into itself.

Re: Wikimedia removes the Diary of Anne Frank due to copyright law

#132

Post by AnthonyMouse » Sat, Feb 13, 2016, 2:45 PM UTC

deciplex wrote: post #28

slg wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This logic is the reason why we have so many archaic laws surrounding the technology. Too often our community simply decides it is easier to ignore the law in question than trying to fight it and so we withdraw ourselves from the debate. It isn't our job as technologist to build tools to circumvent the law. It is our job as technologist to educate politicians and the greater population as a whole why these issues are…

If you think that education, or the lack thereof, of politicians anywhere is the reason for absurd copyright law across the entire globe, you really aren't paying attention. There is no argument clever enough or convincing enough to overpower the flood of money and bullshit that keeps copyright law the way it is. You may as well argue against the law of gravity. The only solution is to deprive the bad actors of the f…

> The only solution is to deprive the bad actors of the funds they need to keep the system corrupt, and since most people (rightly, in my opinion) can't accept simply abandoning large parts of their culture to that fight, the only option left is to make piracy widespread, easy, and safe.

Which has done more to erode Microsoft's server profits, people pirating Windows or people creating GNU/Linux?

What we need is to build alternative platforms that compete with Hollywood and destroy them (and their margins) through legitimate competition.

Re: Wikimedia removes the Diary of Anne Frank due to copyright law

#133

Post by alanwatts » Sat, Feb 13, 2016, 2:46 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #25

magicfractal wrote: post #6

That's barbaric. That's why civil disobedience is the only adequate answer to the current overreach of copyright in the united states. It's up to us, technologists, to create and disseminate tools to help out in the dismantlement of an absurd system that is obsolete in the digital age.

This logic is the reason why we have so many archaic laws surrounding the technology. Too often our community simply decides it is easier to ignore the law in question than trying to fight it and so we withdraw ourselves from the debate. It isn't our job as technologist to build tools to circumvent the law. It is our job as technologist to educate politicians and the greater population as a whole why these issues are…

>I'm going to give you an important kind of a picture. I hear a lot of people say "I don't like machinery and technology, it's making a lot of trouble." So we're going to take all the machinery away from all the countries of the world, all machinery, all the tracks and the wires, and the works and we're going to dump it all in the ocean. And you will discover that within 6 months, 2 billion people will die of starvation having gone through great pain. So we say "That's not a very good idea lets put all the machinery back where it was." Then, we're going to take all the politicians from all the countries around the world and we're going to send them on a trip around the sun, and you'll find we keep right on eating. And the political barriers now... scientists say very clear you could make the world work and take care of 100% of the people at a higher standard of living that anyone has ever known despite the increasing population, but you can't do it with the barriers, any more than you can try run a human organism with a wall between the ear, the eye, and the stomach. It is an organic whole, it is total industrialization.

-Buckminster Fuller

Fuller claimed that the reason why we cannot take care of the greater population as a whole is not because we don't have the technical feasibility to do so but because we are trying to solve our problems with politics. Trying to solve the problems of the electric age by using the paper-based political framework is futile and self-defeating.

Re: Wikimedia removes the Diary of Anne Frank due to copyright law

#134

Post by alanwatts » Sat, Feb 13, 2016, 2:49 PM UTC

azernik wrote: post #47

scotty79 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politicians don't get educated. They get bought. Do you have as much money as copyright industry? No? Then, no, you can't have your sensible laws. You'll have theirs. The only action you can take is to ignore those unenforcible.

Or, they get threatened with loss of their seats. Which is accomplished by educating the population. It's a lot more gratifying to live in this conspiratorial world where a romanticized resistance against our corporate overlords is the only way, but it's not a useful mental model for actually succeeding at anything.

What is a useful mental model for succeeding?

Re: Wikimedia removes the Diary of Anne Frank due to copyright law

#135

Post by chris_wot » Sat, Feb 13, 2016, 2:56 PM UTC

lbarrett wrote: post #55

chris_wot wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm as appalled as the next man by this ridiculous copyright situation, but they could also be trying to ensure that nobody can modify the work in a way that would be disrespectful to the memory of Anne Frank. That's a real concern, given that there are a lot of Neo-Nazis in the world.

But satire is covered by fair use, right? So I think the neo-Nazis aren't hampered by the copyright.

Yeah, fair point.

Re: Wikimedia removes the Diary of Anne Frank due to copyright law

#136

Post by AnthonyMouse » Sat, Feb 13, 2016, 2:56 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #92

kijin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't even have to be a strict cutoff. The first 10 years might be free and automatic, but the Copyright Office could charge exponentially increasing fees for renewals afterward. For example, $1K for the next 10 years, then $10K, then $100K... This means that only works that remain truly profitable in the long term will stay copyrighted. If Disney wants to pay $10B to keep Mickey Mouse copyrighted, they are welc…

I think this is a generally sensible proposal that would garner much public support. However, I would like to see moral rights retained for longer than 10 years - the right to prevent modification of the work, the right to be named as author, for example. Extending these to life+X years (but requiring free-gratis registration) seems fair to me as well.

The ability to create derivative works is one of the primary benefits of works entering the public domain, so no.

Re: Wikimedia removes the Diary of Anne Frank due to copyright law

#137

Post by alanwatts » Sat, Feb 13, 2016, 2:59 PM UTC

cookiecaper wrote: post #121

scotty79 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or, they get threatened with loss of their seats. They get seats by spending money on campaigns. Public is easily manipulated by political marketing. The only thing that could put them out of there seats would be more money spent for a smear campaign against them. > It's a lot more gratifying to live in this conspiratorial world where a romanticized resistance against our corporate overlords is the only way, but it…

>They get seats by spending money on campaigns. Public is easily manipulated by political marketing. The only thing that could put them out of there seats would be more money spent for a smear campaign against them. This is overly simplistic. If it were exclusively about cash resources, the most cash-rich candidates would win every time. We know that doesn't happen. Yes, money does play an important role (because it…

>If it were exclusively about cash resources, the most cash-rich candidates would win every time.

Correct me if I'm wrong but haven't the past 3 presidential elections been won by the candidate with the biggest cash flow?

And yes, of course it is not the only factor as you noted, media coverage is crucial and information via the internet is rapidly becoming a more important factor. But the problem is: the same people who own and operate these massive media corporations also own the internet infrastructure and are also the ones who are pouring massive amounts of bribes/funding into the elections.

Re: Wikimedia removes the Diary of Anne Frank due to copyright law

#138

Post by empressplay » Sat, Feb 13, 2016, 3:04 PM UTC

poizan42 wrote: post #116

raddad wrote: post #31

https://archive.org/details/AnneFrankTheDiaryOfAYoungGirl Claims it is open source. The torrent somebody asked for: https://archive.org/download/AnneFrankTheDiaryOfAYoungGirl/A...

The Internet Archive is absolutely fearless when it comes to risk of litigation for copyright infringement. One could fear that it will be their dead.

Apparently they have some sort of exemption (as an extension of the LoC?) but that's never been legally tested.

Re: Wikimedia removes the Diary of Anne Frank due to copyright law

#139

Post by anon4 » Sat, Feb 13, 2016, 3:36 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #45

ivanca wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Educate politicians" Nonsense. Politicians already settled their mind a long time ago, it was when they were in college or before that, now its way too late. You don't believe me? Try to convince creationist politicians about evolution, and it doesn't matter how many proofs you show them, the complete fossil record, they are not going to get educated, you can prove them evolution is not against their beliefs but it…

The evidence behind evolution is orders of magnitude more convincing than anything anyone could ever come up with for copyright law. Clearly we need something other than evidence, because if science doesn't work on politics, technology doesn't stand a chance.

I'm leaning towards an army of battle droids. I wonder if I can kickstart that...

Re: Wikimedia removes the Diary of Anne Frank due to copyright law

#140

Post by lloyd-christmas » Sat, Feb 13, 2016, 3:42 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #51

azernik wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, they get threatened with loss of their seats. Which is accomplished by educating the population. It's a lot more gratifying to live in this conspiratorial world where a romanticized resistance against our corporate overlords is the only way, but it's not a useful mental model for actually succeeding at anything.

> Or, they get threatened with loss of their seats. They get seats by spending money on campaigns. Public is easily manipulated by political marketing. The only thing that could put them out of there seats would be more money spent for a smear campaign against them. > It's a lot more gratifying to live in this conspiratorial world where a romanticized resistance against our corporate overlords is the only way, but it…

Let's play a game. It's called "NAME! YOUR! REPRESENTATIVES!!!!".

We'll start with the easiest and work our way up (subjectively):

1) Who's the President?

2) Who's your Governor?

3) Who's your Mayor?

4) Who are your Senators?

5) Who's your Representative?

6) Who's your State Senator?

7) Who's your State Representative/Assembly member?*

I ask these questions every time someone brings up their "The system is rigged, maaaaan". I've only found a handful of people that could name their Representative. Most people can't even name their senators. I always find it fascinating how people are able to trash talk their representatives when they don't even know who they are.

* Excluding you communist unicameral Nebraskans