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Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

business.financialpost.com

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Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#241

Post by talmand »

gorkemyurt wrote: post #211

One of the main reasons of the housing crisis in the Bay Area is Prop 13 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(197... ) Prop 13 basically keeps the property taxes constant (or 1% increase) as the value of your house increases (doubles or triples). Your tax gets re-calculated only if you sell your house and the new owner starts paying potentially multiples of what the previous owner has been payin…

One of the reasons I had heard for some people wanting it is that some local politicians had figured out that they could manipulate housing valuations to increase their tax revenue. It's not in the list on Wikipedia and I'm not sure of the validity of it all as I'm not aware of what the practices actually are in California; but I recall reading about it back when Arnold first ran for governor.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#242

Post by pessimizer »

lmm wrote: post #141
p4wnc6 wrote: post #62

I can't help but to quote the full song Modern Man from Arcade Fire's album The Suburbs -- which basically was an entire album chronicling this sort of issue in San Francisco. So I wait my turn, I'm a modern man And the people behind me, they can't understand Makes me feel like Makes me feel like So I wait in line, I'm a modern man And the people behind me, they can't understand Makes me feel like Something don't fee…

Those "consumer variation bullshit startups" are providing a lot of value to people. It's easy to forget how much less fun day-to-day life was even ten years ago. I think the main reasons people want to park their money in property in expensive cities are some combination of 1. uncertainty/flight to safety 2. thinking prices will go up, perhaps due to undersupply, perhaps due to genuine value to be produced in the ci…

> 3. for some wealthy foreign investors, an asset that's not at risk of being seized by a corrupt government.

I think it's far more often the opposite; wealthy Russian oligarchs and corrupt CCP members trying to dodge economic sanctions and Xi Jinping's corruption crackdown by stashing their cash and children safely away from their home countries.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#243

Post by mr_november »

thebokehwokeh2 wrote: post #218
refurb wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A significant portion of the housing is being bought by foreign investors who don't even live here What evidence is there that foreign ownership is a major problem? I've heard plenty of anecdotes, but no actual data. I do know that Vancouver real estate agents are milking the "yellow peril" for all it's worth. "Buy now before China owns all of Vancouver!". Don't forget there is a ton of speculation going on by Canadi…

In the west end, it really is "yellow peril". I am asian myself, but I contribute to the economy as a job provider. Speculators are the reason for the impending ghost town that is Vancouver. http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpo...

The west end is the west part of downtown. You are talking about the west side, and in fact, not even the west side, but west of Alma, which is waaaay out there. Super west side.

This 'academic case study' you linked to is cited over and over however, no one really looks at the actual data in it, namely where the homes are. It's literally a tiny pocket, which has the most expensive homes in the whole city, so yes, it's primarily Asian buyers. Not that surprising.

Don't get me wrong - there is a real problem here but that study is repurposed over and over to show the extent of the problem and it's very misleading.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#244

Post by beatpanda »

lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #150

If having essentially no affordable housing rendered a city an economic ghost town, then much of the Bay area and Manhattan would be "ghost towns" - which, in turn, would lower housing prices radically. What might happen to Vancouver is probably similar to other major cities with housing crunches but an otherwise desirable economic climate: lower wage workers will be displaced further from the city and forced to comm…

Plot twist: most of the Bay Area is a ghost town, culturally.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#245

Post by svachalek »

fiatmoney wrote: post #217
gorkemyurt wrote: post #211

One of the main reasons of the housing crisis in the Bay Area is Prop 13 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(197... ) Prop 13 basically keeps the property taxes constant (or 1% increase) as the value of your house increases (doubles or triples). Your tax gets re-calculated only if you sell your house and the new owner starts paying potentially multiples of what the previous owner has been payin…

Prop 13 has nothing to do with real estate price inflation. If anything, shifting of property tax burdens from long-time homeowners to new homeowners would tend to suppress prices. Shifting that burden evenly across the population would tend to cause more churn as long-time homeowners get pushed out, but would do nothing to increase aggregate housing or lower aggregate prices. Although, you can get pretty far into th…

A 4-bedroom house bought in the 70s is far more affordable than a 1-bedroom condo bought today, which creates a situation where no one can afford to move out of their homes. It's a massive tax benefit for themselves, their children, and grandchildren, that instantly and irrevocably goes away when they sell the house. No matter how high the market drives prices there is little incentive to sell.

I don't know how much this has to do with the shortage of supply in the bay area but I'd be very surprised if it has "nothing to do" with it.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#246

Post by falsyvalue »

This article and thread hits pretty hard for me. I was born in Vancouver and I'm getting pretty worried that Canadian salaries aren't enough to live in Canadian city. To any of you living in Vancouver and working remotely, do you have any advice for getting into that?

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#247

Post by falsyvalue »

This article and thread hits pretty hard for me. I was born in Vancouver and I'm getting pretty worried that Canadian salaries aren't enough to live in Canadian city. To any of you living in Vancouver and working remotely, do you have any advice for getting into that?

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#248

Post by [deleted] »

BurningFrog wrote: post #173
jessewmc wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem in Vancouver is the house prices are not driven by economic activity in the city itself. Bay area and Manhattan prices are a product of the local economies. Vancouver prices are a product of speculation and wealthy people who live/have property there but don't work there.

So why do speculators choose Vancouver of all places to speculate in?

[deleted]

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#249

Post by vkou »

gearoidoc wrote: post #138
rubiquity wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner. While I've never ever considered moving to Vancouver, I get recruiter emails several times a month for companies in Vancouver looking for Senior programmers to move there and only offering 80k to 110k CAD at the most. That is not nearly enough money to live in Vancouver. Enough to exist but not enough to live. The problem as I understand it is that a ton of Vancouver's housing is occ…

CAD 110k is definitely enough to get a decent place, live comfortably and save some money in Vancouver. But then again 'decent' and 'comfortably' are subjective.

Yes, it's enough to rent in a decent place, live comfortably, and save ~20K/year.

A senior engineer in Seattle can do the same, and save ~100K/year.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#250

Post by sandworm101 »

badloginagain wrote: post #222
sandworm101 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> Tech is only a small part, and fixing it for one small sector isn't going to do much on a macro scale. Very convenient. Not attempting to fix a problem until everyone else is onboard is a great way of not doing anything. If tech companies want to retain talent, pay for it. Don't lambaste the city or the economy. There is nothing more hypocritical than a CEO of a profitable company complaining about retention. If…

Wow, I don't know what that comment has a greater supply of, ignorance or cynicism. Being paid more =/= fixing housing crisis.

>> Being paid more =/= fixing housing crisis.

It solve the crisis for the people you pay. It allows them to live rather than move elsewhere. If all employers did the same, then it wouldn't really be a crisis.

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